My only real response here is we can only take the players for what they were/are. You can try to assume that Hakeem would be better today with the additional resources, and in contrast Jokic would be less in a previous era. But that’s speculation. All I go off if is what the player can/could do on the court. And with all do respect to Hakeem, Shaq, or any other center in NBA history, they couldn’t do as much as what Jokic does.
Alot of people think Kyrie is a complete flake, and is an unstable as franchise player. Pretty much, any skill or talents that you wanted to give a point guard, Kyrie has all of them and can do mostly everything at super high to elite level. He can beat anyone off the dribble with good ball handling, create his own shot, open the game up for other players, great mid-range shooter, and great 3 point shooter. I know people will knock him for defense, but I've seen worse and even amongst some all time greats, they were fairly suspect on defense. Stockton is strictly a pass-first point guard who can also shoot well. He made alot of those Jazz teams great, and is an all time great. Far more accomplished than Kyrie, yet Kyrie has also won a championship, a far more dominant scorer, and he could take his game to another level/elevates his game in the playoffs. If you take Kyrie strictly as a player, I'd argue he is more talented than Stockton.
Im not holding anything against him. But you can't even compare their passing. Jokic is one of the best passers I've ever seen. He throws passes that should never be thrown and yet somehow always find his man. Hakeem was more of a scorer. It's easier to guard a guy who's always trying to score. There is no way to play Jokic. He's the most efficient player ever. It's crazy. Hakeem is my favorite player of all time. Y'all act like I'm saying bad things about him. I know he'd crush Jokic one on one. But let's give this man some credit. He's doing things that have never been done in history of the league. His stats are insane. Everytime he shoots the ball it just seems to hit every part of the rim and go in. He defying physics. I don't get it but it works.
Im not holding anything against him. But you can't even compare their passing. Jokic is one of the best passers I've ever seen. He throws passes that should never be thrown and yet somehow always find his man. Hakeem was more of a scorer. It's easier to guard a guy who's always trying to score. There is no way to play Jokic. He's the most efficient player ever. It's crazy. Hakeem is my favorite player of all time. Y'all act like I'm saying bad things about him. I know he'd crush Jokic one on one. But let's give this man some credit. He's doing things that have never been done in history of the league. His stats are insane. Everytime he shoots the ball it just seems to hit every part of the rim and go in. He defying physics. I don't get it but it works.
LOL I’m sure if Stockton played with LeBron he would have won a ring. What exactly has Kyrie done since escaping LBJ’s shadow?
Saying Jokic is more skilled than Hakeem is like saying your mom is more skilled than Gianna Michaels. It's possible, I guess, but HIGHLY unlikely.
Hakeem played on both sides of the ball. He is a level above Jokic. As for passing, Jokic is possibly the best passing center ever. Walton was really good too. I find all of this silly.
Do I think Joker is better than Hakeem? Not really. Do I think he's a better offensive player? Debatable He definitely doesn't touch him defensively. Though, playmaking, Jokic has a feel for the game in the way that players, like Magic or Bird did. He doesn't force up bad shots, and is always looking to make a play for his teammates. It's not something you can really teach a player. I keep forgetting to mention he's a straight up bully in the post. The article, mostly spoke this part of the game, which although clickbait. I can understand that aspect of the game. For a player, like Embiid, who many say should've won last year's MVP, pretty much all have egg in their faces, right now. I know, especially with the Hakeem comparisons, I thought was laughable. Don't get me wrong, he's fantastic center and I think at the end of his career, he'll be in top 10-12, maybe 7 if he can win titles in the later part of his career. He's not in the same league as Olajuwon. Because, Olajuwon is in the discussion with players, like Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, and Russell. It changes a little bit with Joker, because he has a super unique skill set. He's not a great athlete by any stretch of the imagination, but at 275-290 with elite passing skills, good mid range/3 point shooting combined with great post skills. Joker is like the "Rich man" version of Yao Ming, shorter, but a better outside shooter and better playmaking skills. If Jokic wins 2 or more titles at the rate, he's going. He'll probably be closer to the top five. Like, Olajuwon, who hasn't really played with another HOF until later into his career. Dream was cursed for not having greater teammates or a franchise, I think that's why he often falls out of the top 5 or 7 for alot of people. Even though, skill-wise, he should easily be in top 3, for his unmatched offensive game and ultra dominant defense. Many centers had great numbers or accolades, but they also weren't nearly as talented or graceful as Dream.
It's really hard to compare the two. Both are playing in different era. Today NBA most team is playing small ball. 90s NBA most team are playing 2 big men in the starting lineup. Hakeem can definitely dominant in the paint playing in today NBA. Jokic is not going to have the space playing in the 90s. Both are skilled center.
Jokic still not being able to block a lot of shots tells you that if he could jump and do athletic stuff, he would be on another level. I guess probably better than Olajuwon by now and nobody probably would question it no more. Of course we are going to talk it out by speculation as it is the only way to talk about two players in different timelines. The question in this thread keeps poking holes into this, Who is more skilled? Not who is better. I think you could argue for both sides, Jokic is more creative, Hakeem had even better footwork and better pump fakes. Sengun hands down has that Mini Dreamshake down, and with it he seemed a lot more mobile than Jokic. I am open to both players in terms of skills and skillsets.
Defense is a skill. Only on Clutchfans will you have absolute loser threads like these. Harden, I've seen many times, but to make a thread like this about Hakeem here. Just so distasteful.
So I made the thread and continue to scream sarcasm. I foolishly assumed the emoji above the article made it obvious. Dream is one of my heroes.
Hakeem is a better overall player but on the ball Jokic clears Hakeem and when ppl say skill they mean on the ball skill. Defense is a skill but it's more about effort than anything else and you can teach effort and improve a lot on d unless you are terribly undersized. Look how far Jokic have come on defense simply because he's tall and over the years learned to use his size. Good luck improving your handle, passing and court vision as a big man. It's never happening.
You can tell which people never actually saw Dream play. I find it unfathomable that anybody could've seen Hakeem in the post and then say somebody is a more skilled player with (admittedly effective) loony tune passing ability and better long range shooting. Dream moved in a whole different world of grace than Joker, skill? Shiiiit, go ask "MVP" David Robinson about offensive skill.
Dream can dribble the ball too This guy did get a quadruple double The big issue here is Miami is too small Hakeem would triple double them every game plus if you go head to head , there’s zero people that can guard Dream 1x1 joker would foul out
Back when I had knees, I loved playing against guys who were all effort. Easy to fake out and get out of position. Great defensive play is not only effort, but positioning, anticipation, angles, timing, feet, hands, body, and a host of other things. If you’re going to praise Jokic for his passing, you must praise Dream for his defense because it, like passing, is a skill that has high bball IQ as a foundation.
