Again, that 1st Bulls team was on a mission, they weren't going to lose to a Detroit team even it was the prior year's version, the only difference would of been that they would not have destroyed them in a sweep. Who cares about every other center in the league, Shaq didn't have to guard anyone on the Bulls when they swept them, didn't have to guard anyone on the Jazz when they swept them, didn't have to really guard Smits or Robinson when their teams swept him. That had nothing to do with why he reached his potential, he was dominating dudes before and after that season anyway, but there is a reason why his lone MVP award came that season, that's the only one he deserved it in. I'm not going to get too much into fantasy match ups, I'll just say I'll disagree with you that Laker team would of beat any version of Dream's Rockets, Robinson and Duncan's Spurs, and Stockton and Malone.
Shaq didn't have a killer closer when he was swept by the Bulls or Jazz. Smits is not a dominant center (although I did forget about him) and he was on his last legs. Robinson was past his prime as well (which was not the case when the Spurs lost to LA). Yes, he was dominating dudes before he started winning. However, the point that you keep missing is that you can't give him the ball to close a game out, which is why he needed Kobe the killer, which the prior LA coach did not have. Kobe would have been Kobe no matter who was coaching him.
Posted this in a Rockets topic before I saw this one, but applies to both I think: "Excellent topic...I was thinking about this the other day. In looking at his history, Jackson will only return to a coach in a situation where the elite talent is in place to IMMEDIATELY become a title contender. Right off the bat that eliminates almost every team in the NBA, excluding the following, for at least the next 2 years: MIA DAL SAC SA UTAH IND DET PHO DEN HOU MEM MIN You can further reduce this list by eliminating the following teams: SA - Pop is GM and coach, so chances are he isn't going to fire himself for Phil. Utah - Sloan is an icon, and even if he quit b/c of his wife's recent death, I don't think SLC provides enough glamour to stroke Phil's ego. DET - Brown, coming off a title, has at least another 2-3 years before he abandons this team to continue his nomadic career. MEM - Unlikely Jerry West would ever hire the man who essentially forced him out of LA. PHO - Although talented, they lack the one true superstar who can carry a championship, so I doubt Phil would chance ruining his rep on a team with a history of underachieving. That leaves the following destinations: MIA DAL SAC IND DEN HOU MIN Let's rank these destinations, examing Pros/Cons for the team and Phil: MIA - The Shaq factor is huge...everyone knows he loves Phil, and vice versa. But Pat Riley also has a rather large ego, so I doubt he would hire someone who might overshadow him. Besides Stan VG has probably earned at least 2 more years, unless the Heat completely collapse next year. DAL - Phil and Cuban have a long history of war-of-words, but don't think for a second Mark would spare any expense if the opportunity was there to bring in another star, even as the coach. However, it seems the Nelson clan has a good hold on this franchise, so at least for the immediate future, it looks like the Nelsons won't be leaving, even for the Zen master. SAC - A very strong contender, IMO. Adelman is already in trouble, the team has a ton of coachable talent, and the Maloofs share Cuban's zeal in making a big splash. The only drawback for Phil could be the rapidly closing window: Vlade's already gone, and older guys like CWebb and Christie won't be around much longer. Still, any team with a young foundation of Peja, Bibby, and BMiller will be contenders for a while. IND - Certainly have the talent to appeal to Phil. Also, by coming to the East, Phil's challenge becomes infinitely less daunting in the playoffs. But Larry Bird runs this team, and although I don't remember any friction between the two, Larry already ran off Isiah. A definite possibility though. DEN - Probably the frontrunner, if Phil is interested. The chance to coach an up-and-coming team built around Carmelo and Kmart is definitely right up Phil's alley. Carmelo has a chance to be in the Jordan/Shaq/Kobe class of player, and with Bzedelnik clearly a lame-duck, it's just a matter of whether or not Phil would accept. MIN - Any team with KG is always going to contend, but Minny just doesn't seem to have enough glamour to attract Phil. The proximity to his Montana ranch could help, as would the opportunity to coach Garnett, but I can't see Flip leaving anytime soon, so I call this one a longshot. HOU - From a talent standpoint, this team is probably the most attractive to Phil. We all know about the Shaq/Kobe comparisons with Yao and Tmac, and this could be the ideal situation for Phil to come in and take an immensely talented team to the next level. JVG would have to fail tremendously to get canned in the next 2 years, but I would say that is the only major obstacle to Phil becoming the next Rockets coach. Co-leader, along with Denver. So, to recap, this is my final ranking of Phil's likely next destination: 1A - Denver 1B - Houston 3 - Sacramento 4 - Miami 5 - Indiana 6 - Dallas 7 - Minnesota Personally, I hate his smug, pretentious a$$, but if JVG can't do it, I'd give Phil a chance."
I'm guessing killer crossover was a joke... He did have a great clutch player in Penny Hardaway, and Nick Anderson was super clutch (HAHA!) as well, still couldn't do much. If you need a guy like Kobe Bryant to help you win a championship than maybe SHAQ is the one that's overrated, not Phil Jackson. On the Phil Jackson to the Rockets thing, BRING HIM ON!
Kobe disagrees: "I wouldn't have learned the mental aspect of the game without his help. You look at some of the other All-Stars, and they're playing on potential and talent. Phil has shown me a game at a different level, and so I've started to dissect it, understand momentum shifts and the little nuances. That's all because of Phil and his assistants. For me to say he restricts my game would be crazy." This is from Kobe's infamous "I don't like Phil as a person, but I love him as a coach" comments midseason. Text can be found at: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...0402151004.2bb782ed@posting.google.com&rnum=1
That's what I'm talking about! Similar quotes could be found from Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen as well, if you really want to look for them. If you want more evidence as to how much Bryant and Jordan respect Phil Jackson you don't have to look no further as to how they talk during their interviews, they basically mimic Jackson's way of speaking. I know that's not something that can be proven, but I have heard people say that Bryant is trying to be EXACTLY like Jordan even in the way he talks, well, where do they think Jordan got that from? Family member? Dean Smith? Doug Collins? Nope, Phil Jackson.
Similar quotes could likely be found from players who played for other coaches besides Phil Jackson. Phil is not exactly the first coach to teach about "momentum shifts and little nuances." And what coaches has Kobe played for? He never played for a college coach, he played for Del Harris, who rightfully benched him because all he wanted to do was gun. Then Harris got fired for not getting past the Jazz in the playoffs, and Kurt Rambis took over. Kurt Rambis just plain sucked. Then Phil came in. So let's sum up: Kobe has played for a coach that benched him, a just plain crappy interim coach, and then Phil. Of course he's going to praise Phil. It's not like he has a good basis for comparison. Similar situation with Jordan. Dean Smith was busy coaching James Worthy's NC to a title while Jordan was just a young 'un on the team, and when Worthy left Smith was still coaching a team concept, which I'm sure Jordan didn't like too much. Then when he got to the pros Collins did some experimental things with him like playing him at point guard, where he racked up triple-doubles like they were going out of style, but he hated Collins because he wanted to shoot more. Phil Jackson arrived and let him shoot all he wanted, so Jordan loved him. What's so special about that? Oh, but you sure are right about one thing: they speak much the same way during interviews. They're pretentious, just like Phil, because they're top players.
Maybe other coaches do teach "momentum shifts and nuances" but none teach the mental aspects and propel players to different levels like Jackson does. It's not by comparison; Jackson taught him how to be great, greater than his talent could take him, just like he did with Jordan. Dean Smith is possibly the greatest basketball teacher of all time, Jordan learned a lot from him, just not the same things he learned from Phil Jackson. He didn't hate Collins, he liked him as long as he thought Jordan could do no wrong, he and Ahmad Rashad are probably the 2 biggest Jordan jockers/butt kissers of all time. Jordan/Collins compares to McGrady/Rivers and the future Pierce/Rivers, the problem wasn't that Collins tried to make Jordan do something, it was that he let Jordan do what ever the hell he wanted, which was leading the Bulls no where. Phil Jackson was the complete opposite, because he knew the Bulls weren't going to win anything by letting Jordan do what he wanted. Jackson forced Jordan to adapt to the triangle offense, trust his teammates, sacrifice certain aspects of his game, etc. and the results were impressive. Well, only Michael has gone 3rd person on us...
And the basis for these statements is...? (One that hasn't already been covered by Icehouse, Manny, Easy, et al)
Yes, Shaq is overrated. That's for a different thread though. Please don't give me the "he taught them the mental aspect" crap. MJ and Kobe are some of the most focused, I wanna win and kill you athletes on the planet, and they were that way before Phil Jackson. You might have a point with Shaq, but even he showed significant moments of lazyness in LA. I guess you can do that when you are the only center in the league. Also, I don't but the Phil got MJ to trust his teammates crap either. MJ gave up the rock once his teammates got better (same as Dream). He just played with crap early on, and the best option was for him to shoot it.
What basis do you need? Jordan was a player that only cared about himself FIRST without Phil Jackson and a player that cared about winning FIRST with Phil Jackson. Even with the Wizards all the guy cared about was himself, which he always did because Collins always allowed it.
If Jordan truly was this focused, I want to win and kill you athlete he would of beaten the Pistons in 1990 not 1991. He was only focused on trying to win by himself, it took Phil Jackson a year of drilling a team game to him and that defeat in 90 for him to see that he needed to trust his teammates. The team in 1990 was the exact same one as in 1991, Jordan just didn't understand the concept of playing team basketball yet.
i know why PJ was fired, he was screwing the owners daugther. Wait a minute....honestly i didnt know his wife was the owners daugther intill i read some article on espn.
Uh, what? Jordan ALWAYS cared about himself first. He didn't give a rat crap about anyone outside of what they could do for him, period. Phil Jackson never changed that. Why do you think Pippen was so adamant about his payday when he left the Bulls? Because he was treated like a red-headed stepchild by Jordan, who was getting $33 million PER YEAR, which was roughly TEN TIMES what Pip was making. Plus, even though the Bulls won all those titles, they were in the red the final year financially from paying MJ so much. Yet MJ wouldn't even take a paycut down to, say, $23 million, so Pippen could stay, Chicago could make money and the Bulls could win MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS. Jordan was completely in control of the Bulls' fate that final year, and he didn't keep it together because he just had to have his $33 million. Jordan was more responsible than any other single player for the lockout. Yeah, Phil really changed Jordan's attitude. That's one of the most laughable statements I've ever read.
Just tell me this, why does he retire when the talent leaves? Why does he not go somewhere with young talent an potential and make them winners? I will tell you. Because he cannot, and he is afraid of ruining his reputation. Also, noone is buying his Kitchen Fresh Chicken crap. It is still Kentucky Fried.
