NEW JERSEY # PLAYER S MIN FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA OR DR TR A F S TO B PTS Brian Scalabrine * 24 4 8 0 1 7 7 1 1 2 1 4 2 3 0 15 Richard Jefferson * 32 7 10 0 0 1 2 1 4 5 4 4 1 3 2 15 Jason Collins * 24 1 3 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 1 5 2 4 0 2 Eddie Gill * 33 3 12 0 3 1 1 1 7 8 4 4 4 1 0 7 Kerry Kittles * 22 5 12 1 1 2 2 1 4 5 2 3 0 1 0 13 Patrick Femerling 15 1 2 0 0 5 7 0 1 1 0 1 1 2 0 7 Torraye Braggs 13 1 1 0 0 1 2 1 0 1 2 3 1 2 0 3 Brandon Armstrong 8 2 4 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 5 Charles Smith 17 0 5 0 3 0 0 0 1 1 0 2 1 1 2 0 Mark Sanford 9 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 0 0 1 2 Tremaine Fowlkes 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 ------------------ Keep Mo Ta & now we have Ta Mo [This message has been edited by r-fan-since-81 (edited July 18, 2001).]
Jefferson had a good game, but Armstrong & Collins please. Nets are probable a little upset, right about now! ------------------ Keep Mo Ta & now we have Ta Mo
If this was the Nets' first Summer League, Jefferson's numbers alone were better than Griffin's first game. I'm sure that's how the Nets would look at it. ------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02!
That's not their first game. Their first game was against Atlanta on Tuesday. In that game, Jefferson had 9 points & 6 boards in 30 minutes, Collins had 3 points and 3 boards in 10 minutes and Armstrong had 13 points and 3 assists in 18 minutes. ------------------
What would you suggest for a criteria? My point is/was that slinging mud at the 3 players we sent to New Jersey proves nothing. It's only Summer League and it's very early to make any long-term projections about who will or will not be effective in the NBA. All trades have 4 possibilities: Team A wins / Team B losses Team A loses / Team B wins Team A wins / Team B wins Team A loses / Team B loses There is nothing carved in stone that says only the Rockets can be the "winners" in the trade with NJ. Just trying to be a realist and trying to exihibit some class. ------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02! [This message has been edited by GATER (edited July 19, 2001).]
Since we traded NJ 3 players how 'bout we add all 3 NJ players' totals? ------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02!
Jefferson's known for having a good defensive game. It was his offensive skills that were somewhat (wrongly, IMHO)questioned. I haven't seen him play this summer, but I'd bet anything that he's playing solid defense out there. That said, he's not the played Griffin is or is going to be. He's got more college experience and might even make a similar contribution this season, but he doesn't have the unlimited potential that Griff's got. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
If Jason Williams avgs 11 pts a game and Shandon Anderson avgs 12 pts a game and Marc Jackson Avgs 12 pts a game and between them they avg 16 rebounds 12 assists 3 blocks and 4 steals a game would you trade Shaq to get them? No? Why not? ------------------
Against the Lakers, Dream averages 14, Cato 10 and Collier 6. The trio gets as many rebs and blocks. Buss wouldn't trade Shaq for this trio, but they have neutralized Shaq and allowed the Rockets a chance to win the game. To me, you are trying to make a point that a #7 pick is better than a #13. And you're using Summer League play to do so. You have totally missed the point - have you even bothered to read all of my responses. From the Nets' standpoint, they needed bodies more than they needed 1 player. I'm glad Griffin's a Rocket, but it is far too early for any gloating on the Rockets behalf. If Jefferson starts and the Nets get quality backup minutes from Collins or Armstrong they'd be ecstatic. ------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02!
Collins looks like a complete waste of space. He had no athleticism to begin with. That, compounded with his recent injury, leaves him devoid of lateral quickness or elevation. Maybe Jefferson wasn't trying his hardest, since it is summer league, but he didn't appear to be the defensive specialist he was made out to be. His lateral quickness didn't live up to my expectations, but he seems to be a legit 6'7. He's Shandon with better form on his shot and less off the ball skills. Armstrong was the one who impressed me the most. Limitless range, good handles, and good court awareness. I was shocked they took him at 23, but he could turn out to be a steal. I see a little bit of Mobley in him scoring wise, and he's got good elevation on his jumper. Both teams benefitted from the trade, but the general rule is to take quality over quantity. ------------------ Here is the casual assumption that a choice must be made between goodness and intelligence; that stupidity is first cousin to moral conduct, and cleverness the first step into mischief; that reason and God are not on good terms with each other; that the mind and the heart are minor buckets in the well of truth, inexorably balanced- full mind, starved heart-stout heart, weak head. [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited July 19, 2001).]
I am simply trying to show that just because the sum of three players looks better on the stat sheet does not mean that they have made a bigger impact than the one they are being compared to. You made the statement that, "If this was the Nets' first Summer League, Jefferson's numbers alone were better than Griffin's first game. I'm sure that's how the Nets would look at it." I asked two questions, "What because he scored more pts? Are you really grading on just offensive pts?" You then asked, "What would you suggest for a criteria?" And I responded, "How about the total game that includes defense, rebounding, blocked shots etc..." And your reply was, "Since we traded NJ 3 players how 'bout we add all 3 NJ players' totals?" Now I just thought that statement was a bit ludicrous which is why I brought up the Shaq scenario. While I agree with you about people not needing to sling mud at the New Jersey players to feel good about EG I also don't think a negitive post on EG is needed to make that point. Further more I believe a lot of people on this board (myself included) feel the need to vent a little because of all the less than shinny pub the Rockets have recieved for drafting EG. And I am not saying everyone is giving us bad pub but their have been certain crittics that have claimed that we got snookered by NJ in the EG trade. All this after EG was suppose to be one of if not the top talent in this draft just a couple of weeks prior to the draft. ------------------
TPL, do you think New Jersey wanted more bodies to get themselves some depth? For mine Kidd, Van Horn and Martin seem to make a reasonable starting line that needs some support. Throw Collins, Pepperdine and Jefferson in there and you've got some tough role-players who will only benefit from Kidd's awesome point skills. ------------------
DrN, This trade was somewhat of an abberation, in that both teams benefitted greatly. Most trades you commonly see ie: Harrington for Strickland, leave no team claiming victory. The Nets and Rockets both came out of the deal filling the needs they had coming into the draft. Still, the Nets could have had a pretty sweet triumvirate of Marbury or Kidd, Martin, and Griffin. They could have shipped off Van Horn, and his albatross contract, and gotten role players of equal or better talent than the ones they acquired through the draft. I still take quality over quantity every time, which is why imo the Rockets will come out with the better end of this deal in the long run. ------------------ Here is the casual assumption that a choice must be made between goodness and intelligence; that stupidity is first cousin to moral conduct, and cleverness the first step into mischief; that reason and God are not on good terms with each other; that the mind and the heart are minor buckets in the well of truth, inexorably balanced- full mind, starved heart-stout heart, weak head.
Chat wrap: Richard Jefferson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jefferson scored 36 points against Michigan State and Duke in the Final Four. Welcome to ESPN.com's moderated chat room. On Thursday, the New Jersey Nets first-round draft pick, Richard Jefferson, made a special visit to chat. Jefferson was an early entry to this year's NBA draft after completing sophomore year at the University of Arizona. Last season he led the Wildcats to the NCAA Tournament's Final Four championship game. He was named an All-NCAA 2001 Final Four selection after averaging 13.5 points and shooting .500 from the floor in tournament. Last season Jefferson averaged 11.3 points, 5.4 rebounds and 2.7 assists for the Wildcats. He was a first team all-Pac-10 pick by The Sporting News. Check out Jefferson in action tonight as the Nets do battle with the Knicks in NBA SummerHoops action (8 p.m. ET, ESPN2). If you missed Jefferson's July 19 chat, an edited transcript follows: For a list of upcoming ESPN.com chat guests, visit the Community section. Richard Jefferson: Good evening everyone. I am here and ready for your questions. Let's get started. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Gordon (Fair Lawn, NJ): Hey Richard, What do you think is the biggest difference between NBA and college ball and how are you going to overcome it? Richard Jefferson: The size of everyone and the strength and quickness. If I work hard, I will be able to use my gifts to overcome that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin Tyler (New York City): Richard, What are your thoughts about playing with Jason Kidd? I understand that you have known Jason for a while going back to your days at Arizona. Richard Jefferson: For me, It is a dream come true. Jason is one of the best passing guards in the game. For me to be able to play with him is very exciting and will help my transition into the NBA. Richard Jefferson: For me, It is a dream come true. Jason is one of the best passing guards in the game. For me to be able to play with him is very exciting and will help my transition into the NBA. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mel: What skills do you feel you bring to the Nets and how do you feel you can contribute? Richard Jefferson: Versatility. There is not one thing that I do really well. I have size and quickness and a winning attitude. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David, Elmhurst: Have you spoken to Gilbert, Michael and Loren after the draft was over and how they felt about being taken in the second round? Richard Jefferson: I have spoken will all three and all were disappointed but they will be OK. I think they will be able to make which ever teams they try out for. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Fork : Has it been difficult to adjust to living in Jersey coming from Arizona? Richard Jefferson: I haven't really moved there permanently. But it will be an adjustment with the weather and everything. But I'll be OK. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nick, Chandler: What is it that you want to accomplish next season as a player and team? Richard Jefferson: Personally, I would love to make the all-rookie team and rookie of the year just like every other rookie. As a team I think we have a great chance to make the playoffs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dawg : NJ: Do you honestly think this team can get to the playoffs? Richard Jefferson: With Jason Kidd there, guys will be more excited to play and play as a team. We will have Keith Van Horn and Kerry Kittles back and we'll have more depth with our rookies. Also, with the East being so competitive, 500 will get you in the playoffs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Glen . Ft. Drum, NY: Would you say that you feel more comfortable at the 2 or 3? Do you feel you will be a starter next year? ________________________________________________- Richard Jefferson: I feel more comfortable at the 2. It is an easier position for me. It is not as physcial and I feel I have an advantage over other players because of my size. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ As far as being a starter, that is tough to tell. I just want to play and play a lot and contribute. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian, Seattle: Congrats on getting drafted so high...did you ever think entering this year that you'd be where you are now? We're you surprised to get drafted as high as you were and to be the first of all the Wildcats to go? Richard Jefferson: I didn't think I would be the first to go but I figured I would go anywhere between 10-15 so I am not surprised. Richard Jefferson: Unfortunately that is all the time I have for now. The team is heading into the lockerroom. Thanks for all the questions and we'll try and do this again sometime. I just posted this for all the people who wanted Rich in a rox uni would have probable seen him on the bench or dealt in a trade. He wants to be a 2. ------------------ Keep Mo Ta & now we have Ta Mo
Perhaps you missed my comment that I am glad the Rockets obtained EG? My unwavering position has been that this can (and likely will) be a win-win situation for both teams. I didn't think your Shaq analogy was very realistic because it doesn't fit the Nets' situation. Have Kobe go down with a career ending injury like Jayson Williams and have Horry with a Kittles-like 2 seasons of injury and suddenly a 3 for 1 for Shaq has a whole different perspective. You keep discounting two things - the Nets need bodies and a win-win situation for both teams is not unreasonable. Are you going to tell me that Rod Thorn actually regrets the trade after 3 Summer League games? I would think the Nets would be very encouraged. And I stated that in my first post in this topic. For some reason, you fail to see why the Nets would react positively. Or are you telling me that so far in Summer League, EG has torn the house down and Jefferson has stunk the place up? ------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02! [This message has been edited by GATER (edited July 20, 2001).]
