I don't know what you know about math, But i don't think you know too much about basketball. ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
This tread belongs to CATO, The Mr.no work ethics! Shandon is playing 3, He will give you a good defense night in and night out but I admit it ,he's got a lot of poor scoring game this month,give him a chance and he will shine. ------------------ Rudy T. will find and fulfill Rockets destiny.
TheFreak: at this point in the season, you might as well ride him out. my point, if you have not noticed, is that his game is terrible (aka: garbage). no way does he start for this team next year IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. if that offends you, i really don't give a ... for the last time, i do not know him as a person any more than you do. therefore when i say something about him, i'm talking about his game, not his person. if i were talking about him as a person, i would definitely make that clear. because what i've said is true. he can't shoot. he can't dribble. he does not pass well. these are all basic requirements for a guard or sf in the nba - ESPECIALLY A STARTER. you talk about cato, walt, langhi, etc. i won't disagree. like i said, big man, SHANDON is on the pit. now that is lame. criticize a player for being talented. uplift a man for not being able to shoot. i KNOW you're not implying he's the only "smart" player on the team. i KNOW that can't be it. cause a smart player would continue to work on his jump shot, seeing as how that's what we need from him. or just being able to handle the ball better than mo taylor. 1. tells me we have the best backcourt in the nba. 2. tells me we have some overachievers. 3. tells me we have some underachievers. 4. tells me we have a great coach. 5. tells me we have a great organization. 6. tells me Shandon Anderson is #3 on this list. ((yawn)) sure he goes to practice. i don't doubt that at all. my point is that he needs to be taking AT LEAST 500 jumpers - extra jumpers - per day. IF he were doing that, i believe he wouldn't hesitate on so many OPEN jumpers in games. what part of that logic do you not agree with? or are you just overtaken with emotion???? um. i am my own man. let's get that clear here and now. if you want to discuss this with me, the "door" is open. i won't use a single quote from anyone else. and i guarantee i'll be right. shandon's game is garbage. i CHALLENGE you to disprove me. never said that. but you are funny. seriously. ummm, when did i start getting paid per response? argue with me why his game ain't garbage, TheFreak. either **** or get off the pot. ------------------ Lt. Roastabotch reporting for duty!
vj23k: response 2 first line: yawn. response 2 second line: sure it was. third line: you're right. some people said that not because of his line, but because of the **** he was saying and the effort he was giving. but guess what? you're missing a key point. that was hakeem's line for the first half of the season. this has been shandon's consistent ability for 2 years! his line may have been better last year, but even then, he could not shoot or dribble. since there has been no visual improvement in his game in the last two years, i think i - and others - are MORE than warranted to say "Shandon is GAR-BAGE". p.s. please don't respond with the already-refuted-a-1000-times "it's not right to call another human being a piece of garbage" defense. ------------------ Lt. Roastabotch reporting for duty!
sure i see the value in stacey augmon. 8-10 minutes per game. there it is. do you see something in shandon anderson that warrants more pt than that? like i said, i understand that AT THIS POINT we might as well keep going with him. but after this, adios buddy. nice seeing you, good "D", but we need guys on the court who can stick the open jumper, handle the ball, and - yes - play defense too. how many of those qualities does shandon anderson possess? now haven, consider this: why did rudy take jason collier? because he's a big man who can stick the J. why langhi? same thing. why walt? same thing. why mo tay? same thing. do you see a pattern? why does rogers not see much pt? i realize that i'm concentrating on the offensive end of the court in this post. why? because defense is a matter of effort. anyone can play it if they just try. offense, however, is a mixture of raw talent (ability), intelligence, and persistence. in other words, not everyone can play offense, just because of the talent factor. everyone, however, if they try, can play defense; and, IMO, we can teach our team to play TEAM DEFENSE effectively enough to win. i don't, however, believe that we can win with stacey augmon playing major minutes for us. you can do what he does AS A TEAM. his sole ability to play one-on-one defence is not enough reason to play him major minutes or to sign him to major dollars. now, if you want to call me an idiot, go for it. but, if you read ANY of my posts (600+) you'll see how foolish that statement is (well, except for the one post i had when i was truly FUBAR). commercial, dunk happy world? dude, you're funny. if only you knew. i'm dunk happy, you're right. it shows aggressiveness. commercial? haven, i AM the underground. i don't want flash. i want guys who do their jobs. and you know damn well that one of a small forward or shooting guard's major responsibilities on offense is to able to hit the open j. tell me, does giving major minutes to an average defensive player - AND NOTHING ELSE - make sense to you? especially over the long haul? if that's the case, we could have just kept stacey augmon. ------------------ Lt. Roastabotch reporting for duty!
you know, as i'm watching this seattle game, a question comes to mind. when are the rockets playing better? when a) shandon anderson is playing his absolute best defense? or b) walt williams is playing his absolute best offense? very easy answer: "B" even if we lose, we play better when the sf is hitting the jumper.
Originally posted by verse: ... because defense is a matter of effort. anyone can play it if they just try. While I disagreed with the thrust of your post Verse, I was giving it serious thought until I read that. If that is true then every head coach in the NBA should be fired for failing to get his players to "try". tell me, does giving major minutes to an average defensive player - AND NOTHING ELSE - make sense to you? especially over the long haul? if that's the case, we could have just kept stacey augmon. You should ask that question to Phil Jackson and Dennis Rodman. The intent of you argument is apparently to a) point out the shortcomings in Shandon's game.(re garbage) b) say that the Rockets should not fork over major dollars for him next year. I cannot argue with b),since with Mobley firmly entrenched as the 2, Shandon's game will continue to suffer when playing OUT OF POSITION at the 3, especially if his performance will be measured using offensive statisitics like so many of you are want to do. In rebuke to a), however, I offer the following. Anderson has being playing out of position almost all year - he is a 2. His offensive strength at Utah was always in posting up smaller 2s(which he cannot do against 3s) and slashing to the bucket. He never was and never will be a good spot up shooter,something the rockets have asked him to do time and again. As a coach (as I have been) you learn to recognize the intangibles that a player brings to the game. It sounds like a cliche but it is true. Shandon brings those intangibles to the game. Shandon almost always plays on the opponents best player. He is asked to stop them,not provide offense. Lord knows we have enough people in the club willing to shoot without asking Shandon to do it. Playing on the best of the best every night drains on you. Finally, the stats you quoted at the start of the thread were from the last 2 weeks games. Not sure if you saw tonights game, but Anderson was forced to leave in the third period with "foot pain". Bill Worrell - "He's in a lot of pain-its been bothering him for weeks" My, now I have an explanation for those uncharacteristic statistics. ------------------ Maybe all the rulers are wrong. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
davo: dennis rodman was much more than just a decent defender. he was a GREAT defender and an EXCELLENT rebounder. regarding the coaching comment... if you've coached - as i have also - you know that effort is something you cannot make happen. just look at kelvin cato. is he really giving 100%? no. are most nba teams giving 100% effort on defense? no. my point is that one man playing defense, no matter how good he is, is almost worthless if the team is not playing "team" defense. is that a knock on shandon? no. it's more a knock on the team. regardless, if that's all he brings to the table - slightly above average defense (and nothing else) - i'd rather have a hot walt williams in there. in other words, for what shandon brings to the table, we're better off having a good shooting, average defense playing player. like i said before, one man does not a defense make, but one man CAN an offense BREAK. we need to teach our 5 man unit to play team defense. at that point, shandon is basically useless, since he is basically stacey augmon. so should nba coaches be fired for not getting their players to try? no. because most nba player do not give 100% effort on defense. however, most nba players - at least the ones that start - compensate for that lack of defensive effort by performing and producing on offense. shandon does not. if that were not the case, stacey augmon and mario elie would be stars. as a coach, i'm sure you know the value of a defensive stopper. however, what is the value (minutes required per game) of a defensive stopper who cannot and will not shoot the open shot? in other words, i may stop you from getting above your average on offense, but i hinder MY offensive sets by not hitting or shooting the open shot? it's a wash, and thus pretty much useless. the game is played on BOTH sides of the court. shandon is playing on one side. and if we're trying (apparently) to move moreso towards a motion offense, then ALL players must be able to play bother sides of the court. i, personally, do not believe shandon has the tools to do so. if you want to alleviate the stats i quoted, so be it. then take ANY month of this year, give me his shooting stats, and prove me wrong. prove to me he provides SOMETHING on offense. i don't thing - in our offense - that he does. thus, i deem him a detriment on the court moreso than a positive. thus, we need him to play no more than 10 minutes per game.
"guys, i'm done." --verse, 3/23 4:21 pm That one's for you, hp. ------------------ It's Shandon's fault. "Oh ****!" ---Kenny Thomas
I'd rather call you 'garbage'. Oh no, lookey this---> It may take a while, but I plan to respond to you in kind, verse. I hope you didn't take that last post seriously, you silly dork. ------------------ It's Shandon's fault. "Oh ****!" ---Kenny Thomas
TheFreak, Take you seriously...?? At this point in my life, I take no '60-'70s decontructions era arguments seriously. Find a belief man...deconstructing basketball logic is not it!!
I think you all are missing Verse's main line of reasoning here. Tell me where the logic breaks down: 1. At best Shandon is a completely one-dimensional player, ala Stacy Augmon. Everyone pretty much seems to agree that Shandon's offensive output is atrocious. And I haven't heard even ONE POSTER on this thread claim that Shandon is as good a defender as Augmon, so I'm not sure he's much of a "stopper". If I missed something, tell me WHY you think he's such a great defender. And then tell me how many minutes that's worth. I'm not seeing it here. 2. On an AVERAGE NBA team (I'm not talking about this year's Rocks here), Shandon has the talent to come off the bench for maybe 10-15 minutes per. Nobody in this thread has suggested otherwise. 3. "Loyalty" aside, someone who fits this profile DOES NOT deserve the type of contract that SA's agent wants him to get (didn't someone say that they were whining about the "Early Bird" not cutting it? I'm not sure he deserves even the Early Bird). 4. With regards to loyalty and the whole "wink wink" business, you can only take that so far. If a guy comes in here and plays this sub-par, I don't think other potential free agent signees are going to get too worried about "loyalty" when the Rocks let SA walk. And how about loyalty to the players who are PERFORMING and earning their keep (eg, Franchise, Cat, KT, etc.). In addition to the personal attacks, most of what I've read here are excuses for Shandon's play this year (out of position, personal tragedies, etc.). For all that, I feel bad for Shandon. But I haven't read a single post that says the Rocks should go sign SA to a monster contract after the season (well, maybe a couple of half-hearted ones). So I guess everyone agrees with Verse after all. ------------------
Just wanted to echo a few of davo's comments. Shandon Anderson's strengths are defense, running the floor, cutting to the basket, and posting up smaller guards. Of these, his biggest asset is defense, both at the individual and team level. These are all wasted in his current position. Shandon is a very good defensive 2 guard, but he's undersized and no more than decent defending forwards. His post-up ability is also negated at forward. His ability to fastbreak as a wing player is wasted on a team where the starting backcourt is constantly forced to hit the defensive boards, and then bring it upcourt. There is no running game unless we get a rebounder in the frontcourt who can start the break with a quick outlet pass to our guards. As to why Shandon doesn't cut to the basket, I'd say it was a result of the team's emphasis on keeping its forwards on the perimeter to shoot jumpers, opening up lanes for the guards to drive. Shan just has never developed as a great shooter - its not his game. If the point of the thread is that Anderson has provided an almost negligible contribution this season as compared to last year, then I agree. Should we pay alot of money to a guy who no longer fits our offensive scheme and is forced to play out of position? No. If there's an opening at SF, I'd like to see a SF fill it. Preferably one that is 6'8" to 6'10" with a good wingspan and a solid outside jump shot. But Shandon Anderson is not entirely to blame for not filling a role that is entirely wrong for his set of skills. He's wasted here, but I'd bet he could flourish on another team. ------------------ I'm about to boldly go where many men have gone before.
I could try to go point-by-point here, but why not just get to what's important. In his first 3 years in the league, Shandon Anderson averaged 20 minutes a game for a team that won over 60 games each year. In his rookie season, he played 16.4 minutes on a 64-win team. That's a key contributor folks. 2 finals appearances, a key contributor both times. Tell me how that equates to 10 minutes a game on a lottery team (which it looks like the Rockets are going to be), as the anti-Shandon's are pointing out in this thread. Tell me how Shandon should only be getting 10 minutes a game here, yet he got twice that on a team that won more games 3 years in a row than the Rockets may ever win in the Francis era. Those minutes were coming in the same backcourt as Stockton/Hornacek, folks. They were better then than Francis/Mobley are now. Eisley was a better backup than Moochie is now. Yet Shandon should somehow get less minutes here? The above proves that Shandon's game isn't garbage. Flat out proves it. Anyone that can contribute that much in his first years in the league to 60+ win teams can play. Simple as that. What's garbage is that he's not being utilized here. He's a role player--role player's are only as good as their stars and coaches make them. The latter are failing this year in trying to integrate Shandon (although what's funny is that the coaches are completely happy with him this year and want him to stay--that is if you go by RUDY QUOTES). I really like how all of a sudden in this thread, Shandon has now become an 'average' defender. That's great! Classic. verse even tried to say that Mobley is a better defender than Shandon! This is just hilarious stuff. I could really see Mobley as a defensive stopper on a 64-win team, couldn't you? Don't you have to move your feet to play good D? Has anyone else noticed that Pippen and Anderson, both thought of as excellent defenders--Pippen one of the best ever--both come to Houston and both have their defensive games suffer? Coincidence? It's because the Rockets' team defense sucks. It has sucked for the past 5 years, much of that while Hakeem, Drexler, Elie, and Pippen were here. How can you explain a team having such terrible team defense while having several good individual defensive players? If Shandon's defense isn't up to par this year, it's because the Rockets just don't play team defense. Gary Payton would probably suffer defensively in Houston. People like to say that it's important in the Rockets' offense that the small forward be able to hit the outside shot. First off, if Rudy believed that was the most important job of our small forward, either Walt, Bullard, or Langhi would be starting there--so Rudy obviously feels differently than those who make that contention on the board. If Rudy felt hitting the outside shot was the most important thing our small forward should do, Shandon wouldn't be starting. It's that simple. Second--it's been pointed out before that our power forward hits the outside shot. When Hakeem plays, he hits the outside shot. That's stretching the defense. When you have a 4-man that plays almost exclusively outside, it becomes less important that your 3-man do it. ------------------ It's Shandon's fault. "Oh ****!" ---Kenny Thomas
Irrational hatred has always annoyed me... ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
So why does he have such a jacked up name now? ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains. [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited July 17, 2001).]
How did I miss out on this thread the first time? Cause it is right on the money. SA is terrible, let him go. ------------------ How long do I have to endure this ?
Damn that verse is good!!! I just wanted to say that my wish list is almost complete. If you’ll look at the opening post, towards the very end, I asked for Eddie & T-Morris. I also asked for no more “garbage on the Compaq floor”. Well, Eddie & T-Rock are here, and Shandn is almost out the door. Life is great! VERSTRADAMUS HAS SPOKEN!!! ------------------ shandn has no "o".
