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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    people like this always seem to live to 100.
     
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  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Don't hold your breath. I fact, she will pivot to blaming Biden for Russia attacking.

     
  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I don't know if Gabbard is being deliberately obtuse or just hasn't been following things. Biden and the rest of NATO leadership said many times that there was no plans for Ukraine to be a member of NATO. Macron delivered that message in person.

    NATO though operates on consensus so a US President can't just dictate who should or shouldn't be a member. Also if the Ukraine asks for NATO membership, which they haven't, that has to be considered.

    Biden can't promise that Ukraine will never be part of NATO. No US President can.
     
  5. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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  6. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    He should come out and admit he was wrong and Russia is evil. He won’t though it’s against his stupid brand. **** him
     
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  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    At this point there is likely little that can be done outside from Putin achieving most of his short term aims. Even if Ukraine was part of NATO there is no way that NATO forces can get there in time to slow down the Russian military.

    There is also good reason why Ukraine isn't part of NATO as there hasn't been consensus previously on deploying troops to defend Ukraine. I doubt that most of America is willing to commit US troops to Ukraine and Biden has still ruled that out.

    Right now the most that can be done is do everything short of direct military force to try to slow down Putin and make the invasion of Ukraine as costly as possible.

    The other side of this is that Europe needs to brace itself for the wave of refugees coming out of Ukraine and the US should support efforts to deal with that also.
     
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  8. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem like it will take long for Russia to route Ukraine. It’s not like Russia is fighting a war thousands of miles away. Russia has easy access to supplies etc. I don’t see this as another Afghanistan for Russia.
     
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  9. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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  10. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Even lil' mario points that out to the republican gunning to be trump's vice president candidate...

     
  12. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    They need to get a court order to check out her finances. I am starting to think she might have some extra cash somehow
     
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  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    This *******...Putin and this guy are horrible human beings.
     
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  14. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    This guy looks like a terrible Bond villain from the 60s
     
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  15. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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    Looks like the assistant principal at my HS that blamed me for letting a mouse go at graduation.
     
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  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    The Ukrainians have no choice but to use asymetric warfare. The Russians have dealt with that more than we have with terrorist attacks in Moscow and other parts of Russia from Chechens and other separatist groups. The Russians are willing to deal with it much more brutally. In 2012 Chechen separatist took over a theater in Moscow. The Russians responding by flooding it with gas that incapacitated the hijackers who they promptly killed. The gas also ended up killing many of the hostages too.

    The Ukrainians also have the example of Grozny, the capital of Chechnya, that was leveled by the Russians. Also Aleppo and Homs where the Syrian backed military with the support of Russia leveled those cities.
    I highly doubt the PRC is going to invade Taiwan anytime soon. Taiwan isn't Ukraine and Xi isn't Putin. Unlike Ukraine Taiwan does have a defense treaty with the US and the US backs that up with frequent shows of strength from the US 7th Fleet. While the PRC military has grown and modernized it's still not clear if it has the capability of taking Taiwan. For those who don't know Taiwan isn't just an island but is also mountainous with difficult terrain. It would be hard for a PRC amphibious force to land on Taiwan, harder to occupy Taipei, and then even harder to deal with Taiwanese forces hiding in the mountains and forest of Taiwan.

    Also while Xi is an authoritarian he understands that his control is very dependent on maintaining the PRC economy. The CCP propaganda is that the Chinese people can handle hardship while the US and the West are soft. That's nice propaganda but for a generation of PRC that grew up with full bellies and playing online video games that isn't so clear they would put up with privation. Taiwan isn't Xinjiang (where the Uyghers are), it's not even Hong Kong where the local leadership there has gone all in to support Xi. Any invasion of Taiwan would at the minimum would be devastating economically. The problems we see coming from Ukraine would pale in comparison to what would happen to the Global Supply chain and markets if the PRC invaded Taiwan. The PRC economy would bear the brunt of that.

    My feeling is that Xi is willing to keep on playing the long game with Taiwan with enticing them with economic partnerships, interfering in their politics with sabre rattling everyone now and then.
     
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  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    The leading republican candidate for president in 2024, which is why the leading news network rushes him onto their network to give his insights and talking points to his followers... like this:

    Trump falsely blames Russia's invasion of Ukraine on 'rigged election' in the US before Fox News cut him off
    https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...ukraine-invasion-rigged-election-video-2022-2

    This tweet provides the tape...
     
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  18. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    That's disturbing.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Clearly Americans have the right to criticize the current Administration on how it's handling Ukraine. Heck they have the right to praise or even outrightly back Putin. Tucker Carlson has the right to say he's alright with Putin because Putin didn't "cancel" him. (although shouldn't that apply to Xi Jinping also?)

    I am uneasy with talk that says that anyone who disagrees with the confronting Putin is a "traitor". We shouldn't follow our leaders down a path to war unquestioningly. We've already seen what that gets us.

    What I will point out though is that for a long time the Republican party talked about politics stopping at the Waters Edge. I also remember how many "Conservatives" called those who opposed the GW Bush Administration on the invasion and occupation of Iraq, "traitors". Many of those same people and certainly Fox Network is one are now suddenly peaceniks who believe dissent is patriotic.

    I have no doubt that if the current President had an "R" next to his party affiliation they and and many others would be saying the opposite.
     
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    You think that would be a good thing?
     

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