China call for Nike boycott over Xinjiang statement, burn shoes

That’s very “generous” with the term of genocide and repression. Teaching immigrants and Native American English is a noble melting pot, but teaching Mandarin in China is repression and genocide. Uyghur was taught in those schools as well, by the way. They can still go to mosques. I’ve had Uighur classmate when I was young, who was enrolled to a top Uni with half of my score and full financial support. 2 years ago, I hired a young Uighur, a very funny and nice fellow. From my experience and what I heard and saw, I don’t believe minorities in China suffered more than Han Chinese did, even during extreme bad time.

Most Native Americans were gone, and we won’t have any problems with them, so we just admit a past mistake and feel open and righteous about ourselves. But Tibetans and Uyghurs in China are alive and their population doubled, tripled during CCP “genocide”, and their life expectancy is DOUBLED, but we Americans get to demand everything of their “tradition” must be kept, be it Lamas being slave owners (we had that argument a few years back) or anything backwards. Otherwise, it’s repression and genocide.

I don’t think everyone was happy at education campus or learning mandarin, but calling that genocide and raping everyone under 40 are just plain outrageous lies. Media should be ashamed of themselves, even with extreme low standard at this alternate information age.

 

Chinese people aged from 20 to 50 love Michael Jackson.

Actually, Chinese kids buy those 200-buck Nike sneakers, even with a nice premium of at least 30%.

 

No Most Native Americans are not gone and we still have problems with they way they were and are treated.

You sure want to focus on the word genocide to take away from everything else that is happening.

Do you have that same energy when the gov run media also says lies about the industrial accidents and the death count?

 

saw the video but of course YouTube offered another video..

This is eye opening considering it was from 2018 and by our own former Military.

 

Please provide a thread link and let me condemn them.

Yes, I do take the word “genocide” very seriously, even if it’s applied to someone I may not like.

 

https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/friendly-feudalism-the-tibet-myth.145193/#post-3550015

here are some sources for Tibet information

• http://users.ite.pl/jna/pomoc/tybet/tibetstat.html
  "Religion in China Today” – Foster Stockwell
  “Tibet: A Reality Check” – N. Ram, Frontline ( A Leading Indian Magazine) September 2000
  “Virtual Tibet” – Orville Schell
  “The Making of Modern Tibet” – Tom Grunfeld

According to Tom Grunfeld,History professor and Tibet expert, prior to direct Chinese administration, Tibet had an estimated population of 1.25 million. Today, Tibet has a population of more than twice that number, at 2.6 million. He explains that this increase in population, after Dali Lama's eviction, was a combination of several factors:
(Prior to 1950) the region's population was declining due to illness (Tibet had no hospital), poor pre- and postnatal care, and a sizeable proportion of men becoming celibate monks.

It is estimated, however, that the population has nearly doubled since that time, as a result of better health care, increased availability of food, and relative political stability.” Also note that the high number of celibate monks is the result of Tibet’s feudal society. Monkhood was one of the ways of escaping a life of servitude as a serf.

According to Grunfeld and Stockwell:
regardless of the legitimacy of China's administration over Tibet, there is strong evidence that the Tibetan people have fared a lot better now than the previous feudal theocratic system. Yes, there is persecution and discrimination against Tibetans; but Tibet today enjoys far greater standards of living, social mobility, access to education and access to health care than pre-1950 Tibetans.

Also, insofar as the field of literature, prior to 1950 Tibetans could point with pride to only a few fine epics that had been passed down through the centuries. Now that serfs can become authors, many new writers are producing works of great quality; persons such as the poet Yedam Tsering and the fiction writers Jampel Gyatso, Tashi Dawa, and Dondru Wangbum. As for art, Tibet for centuries had produced nothing but repetitious religious designs for temples. Now there are many fine artists, such as Bama Tashi, who has been hailed in both France and Canada as a great modern artist who combines Tibetan religious themes with modern pastoral images. Tibet now has more than 30 professional song and dance ensembles, Tibetan opera groups, and other theatrical troupes where none existed before 1950. No, Tibetan culture is not dead; it is flourishing as never before.

Tibet is in the midst of modernization---a far-cry from ethnic genocide. after 40+ years of Chinese rule, Tibetan (non-Han) population and child births (non-Hans) have increased.

What is indisputable, is that the average Tibetan suffered a great deal under the Dali Lama's whose family owned no fewer than 3,000 slaves) reign, insofar as:
-inability to make a living, other than serving the Dalai Lama and the elites, to attain a better standard of living
-scarcity of food
-non-access to healthcare
-non-aaccess to transportation
-non-access to education
-lack of social mobility

 

First, it isn't a "so called" genocide, the CCP is putting people in forced re-education and work camps.

Second of all, not all Muslims are the same or a unified front of people. Saudi and UAE are terrible to Muslims and have their own interests. The fact they are not concerned about Uyghur Muslims doesn't mean a damn thing. Muslims kill each other every day.

Also, I wonder how the countries in Africa feel after doing "business" with China and taking loans etc. Not that I think China is alone in deserving criticism, as the West has taken advantage of Africa as well.... the difference is that the people in the West know they have raped Africa, in China they think that they have "helped" Africans.

This is absurd. First I have been to China a number of times. However, the idea that people cannot have an opinion without living in an area is absurd. With that logic, no one should have an issue with the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany because they are not living there.

Are you serious? Do you understand history at all? The Soviet Union murdered many millions of it's own people and it benefited from it. China is a one party dominant state that has a firm grasp on it's own citizens and goes out of it's way to limit access for it's own people. It can easily do things like burn churches (which it has done and still does) etc.

This is always the response from CCP boot lickers. Even one of the party heads in China in negotiations said the same thing. We know what China is doing. You can choose to justify it or look the other way if you are so inclined.

No, there is a lot of ignorance in China. The media is extremely restricted. It is a one party country. The government punishes those that do not follow the CCP marching orders.

No, the CCP isn't the Chinese people...... just like it doesn't represent the people of Hong Kong or Taiwan...... just like the Communist Party in Soviet Union was not the people. There is no choice in elections. Those that do not go along are severely punished. I have friends in China that speak quite different to me in private than in public. I have family in Hong Kong that feel quite different as well and cannot stand the CCP.

So keep the Communist BS that has been drilled into your head about "CCP=People" to yourself because it is bullshit. It was bullshit when the Soviet Union used it, it was bullshit when North Korea used it and was bullshit rhetoric with Germany used it.

Economics are very important, it is why there has been so much stability in the USA..... but something happens as nations develop economically, they start to want to have more freedoms and choices, and the CCP knows this and that is why they control all the media.

You are naive, very naive.

There already is a de facto Cold War. The CCP has been regularly hacking US and Western businesses and attempting to sow civil problems in the USA. I know for a fact that the CCP has in the last few weeks hacked the company that owns the largest beer manufacturers in the USA to slow down beer production and have distribution slowed. They did the same with the distributor of household items as well. China has also been active in financing efforts in Guatemala and other countries to send people to the US border.

The idea that this is just the USA deciding China is an enemy is absurd. This goes both directions.

It was inevitable, and there needs to be a distinction made that is very important. It is okay to hate another nation's government..... but that does not mean you have the people that live in that country. I hate the CCP, it has murdered many Chinese and it is incredibly oppressive. The improvements made over the last 40 years could have been made without the CCP, indeed the CCP has help China back. Having said that, I view the Chinese people as I do other people around the world, including Americans... they are just people, some are good and some are bad. However, I have family there and I have met wonderful people there.

The difference between the USA and China isn't the people....... it is that the USA airs all it's dirty laundry, what it does good, bad or indifferent is public knowledge.... and most Americans know it because of the press here..... and in the USA people can state that they do not like their government or what their government does..... It isn't that way in China, at least not yet...... and their are historical reasons for it.

 

The treatment of Native Americans is strongly condemned in the USA. You will be very hard pressed to find many people that believe it was justified. It is taught in the USA as cultural genocide and Native American culture is viewed as sacred by most people. There are still Native American's in the USA.

FWIW The treatment of Native American's in Canada is far worse in my experience.

Well yes, just because the United States committed genocide 150-200 years ago does not mean that the USA or anyone else cannot speak up on other terrible acts. Especially in the context that the USA admits their mistakes. Ask yourself this, should Germany be able to comment on human rights after what happened 70 years ago? If Germany criticized the USA for human rights violations; do you think that the USA or American people would say "Shut up, you cannot criticize us because you killed Jews" .... of course not.

That isn't how ethics or the world works. China and the CCP has the right to be criticized for their mistakes.... and the response "well what about what you did" is childish.

False. The CCP should be ashamed of themselves and those that excuse the behavior.

 

There are threads and links all over yet you never posted in them.

I wonder why.

You want to explain what you meant about Native Americans?

 

Actually the forced education of Indigenous Americans wasn't a noble melting pot. It wasn't just English they were being taught but they were forced to convert to Christianity and abandon most of their traditional practices. It's one of the reasons why there are so many problems with Native Americans because much of their culture was destroyed. For Uighars and other religious minorities while on paper they can practice their religion all religions in the PRC are subservient to the government, their message tightly controlled. There is no concept of separation of church and state in the PRC. The state has the final say.

What's left of their culture is more about show for tourists and both Urumuqi and Lhasa are heavily marketed as tourist destinations with much of the businesses, even the ones selling local culture, are run by Hans. At the same time both Xinjiang and Xizhang are very wealthy in natural resources much of that wealth is being taken out of those regions.

It's no surprise that Uighars and other ethnic minorities in the PRC have some of the same problems. While certainly there are successful Uighars as a group they are not doing as well. There are problems with substance abuse among Uighars with many turning to petty crimes and have seen this first hand among Uighars in Beijing and Shanghai.

There are a lot of problems with Native Americans I live next to an urban Native American reservation and things aren't fine with them. It is true that Uighars, Tibetans and other groups are healthier now than they were decades, so are the Han. The same can be said that current Native Americans life expectancy and overall health is much better than it was prior to them losing their land. Many tribes are getting wealthy thanks to things like casinos and some are even able to capitalize off of mineral resources on tribal lands. If you ask most Native Americans they won't feel grateful for European colonizers for that. The argument that native people should be grateful to Europeans is called, "White Man's Burden" the PRC justify their actions as a Han Man's burden, that they are bringing modernity to the benighted groups like Uighars and Tibetans who were living in backward feudal societies. The problem with that is why fuedalism and serfdom is bad the changes weren't something that they did themselves but were forced on them. Also the path to get those things changed involved atrocities which even the CCP acknowledges of the Cultural Revolution. The Cultural Revolution was mainly a Han phenomena that came down from Beijing. Urumuqi and Lhasa had no choice in the matter.

The most telling thing about this situation is if the PRC has been so good to Uighars and other groups why have there been so many protests against the CCP in Urumuqi, Lhasa and other places? If things are going as good as you are saying for them why even the need to put millions of Uighars into re-education camps?

 

Regardless of the political situation in Xinjiang burning Nike shoes is silly. It doesn't help the situation even if you're for the CCP it's childish like when people in the PRC upset about he Daiyutai's started attacking people driving Hondas.

 

CCP arguing two wrongs make a right.....

Fact of the matter it is Chinese policy TODAY, to use work camps.

 

Thank you for your lengthy reply, point to point. Sorry that I don’t have much time and energy right now to respond in full details. I will just cherry pick a few.

Yes, we can all have opinions of anything. Just like a-hole, everyone’s got one. Americans usually have strong opinions of everything. When I lived in Canada, I watched a TV program that a reporter interviewed random Americans on the street. One of the questions was whether we should bomb Saskatchewan (one of the Canadian province). Everyone interviewed answered with a sound yes or “I guess we should”. It’s ridiculous but also sad.

When you have an opinion of genocide, you’d better have facts to back you up. You’ve been to China a few times, and yet you have full confidence that you know more about China than someone lived 20 some years there before and visited and worked on different projects there in recents years, just like those so confident to bomb somewhere they never heard of, just because you believe I am a CCP boot licker and you are throwing insults around.

There are 1 billion internet users now in China, and time is different than the old Cold War. Yes, a lot is still sensored, and Google is still blocked. But Clutchfans is not, CNBC, foxnews.com, cnn.com are not blocked. Young people can actually access Google and FB with VPN. It’s not the 80’s any more, things cannot be hidden under the rug easily any more.

Chinese people still can’t state that they oppose the government itself but they can now state that they oppose some policies or some officials. Is that as advanced as the States? Of course not, but it’s still progressing and a lot better than the old UdSSR and current North Korea.

Oh, as for Africans, I did make some friends from Ghana and Cameron when I studied in Germany. They said they like Chinese people and I believe them.

You said you hate CCP, and I get that. But I guess that’s not a reason that African countries cannot take on Chinese loans to develop their countries? Or they must stay put as the exotic places for Westerns to visit? Or they have to sell natural resources to American companies with deep discounts?

 

I really got to go, but I need to respond to you, as I do respect your posting style and manner throughout the years.

what happened to Tibetans and Uyghurs is different than that to native Americans. The majority of native Americans were killed, and to me that’s genocide or ethnic cleansing. Time is different, Tibetans and Uyghurs population has indeed doubled.

CCP did terrible things during CR, and my family suffered a great deal. But that doesn’t grant me right to call genocide of Uyghurs when I don’t see the facts to back up that claim.

let’s agree to disagree.

Oh yeah, as I said burning Nike shoes is stupid and even more silly and criminal to break others’ Japanese cars.

 

It really is a conundrum. Forced, cheap, exploitive labor created how many North American and European billionaires? If the CCP regime ends would it be a good thing or bad thing? Ethnic minorities rejoice but billionaires around the world cringe at a lost venue.

 

No. US， Canada， Aus did far far worse than that. The ironic thing is they have the guts to use Xinjiang to attack China and bring us back the memories of their true genocide.

Do you know there were terrorist attacks every year in Xinjiang since Qing Dynasty going back like 200 years?
Now there has been zero terrorist attack in almost 5 years.

Chinese like it. Muslim world like it. Chinese Muslims like it too.

Who is pissed by the peace in Xinjiang? The traditional white warmonger countries that have invaded both China and Middle East and have killed millions of both Chinese and Muslims. Now they pretend caring about the human rights of Chinese Muslims even though they do not even care about their own people. ... F them all.

 

Quick, someone ask Lebron and Steve Kerr what they think about this!

 

Because that sneaker really only cost $6.70, by the time it hits USA, add $1.00-$2.50 (logistics and tariffs).

maybe They should of spent $1 more per sneaker , so the factory workers are properly paid to assemble it...

btw some counterfeits are leftover material from bulk material of real products...these are known as Grade A counterfeits. You as the consumer can’t even tell the difference because it’s literally the same material.

Most counterfeits are bought by.....developing countries because they don’t want to pay $6.70 sneaker, they want to buy the $2.50 sneaker which looks the same. So..never buy branded items in developing countries to be safe.

Another reason why, I refuse to buy branded items unless it’s from that branded store....

Also at outlets in USA, these are not all discounted items, you may be buying defective items that could not be sold to flagship branded stores or they they purposely make inferior products to sell at the outlets (change the material composition)

So when you go to that nike outlet, keep in mind many of the sneakers your buying are deemed to be lower quality or defective units that don’t pass Standards.

There are so many other little tricks these massive companies do to make a profit!

Product chemical testing....horror stories on what companies will do to play the “if I didn’t see it but I got a piece of paper, then I am not liable card”......this is from brands that say they are responsible or sustainable....

Huge hypocrisy on what we say vs what we do.