ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Nuggets 11/20/2019

Makes me wonder

 

if goal is winning a championship, MDA and his staff should prepare games vs contenders as a playoffs game

and in the playoffs prepare games as a finals game

 

me watching the Rockets offense last night.

 

These are just a some of the valid points that many people have been making about Harden, D'Antoni, and the addition of Westbrook. None of these guys have been good decision makers, nor have they been good at making adjustments in the crucial moments of games... especially in the playoffs. And all of them have been in the league for over 10+ years.

Harden has folded and wilted in the playoffs numerous times, and he continues to show that he just doesn't seem to be able to be a reliable and poised leader when it really matters the most... which again, is in the crunch time moments of close games, especially playoff games.

And the same goes for Westbrook. He and Harden have a long history of poor decision making, poor shot selection, and countless, silly, sloppy turnovers. All of which have lead to bad losses over the years.

And D'Antoni is probably just as much to blame, if not more so... because he's the coach, as he's responsible for making adjustments, for giving directions and advice, for providing solid gameplans, and maybe most importantly... holding his players accountable. And D'Antoni does ALMOST NONE of these things!

And that's probably the main reason why the Rockets didn't give him the contract extension. Why sign him long term and give him security if he is not showing that he can take the team to the next, highest level? Perhaps they are letting D'Antoni know that it's either put-up, or shut-up time.

Either way, the main point is that no matter what sport it is, football, baseball, basketball, tennis, etc., etc.... when something becomes too predictable... the opponent will be able to capitalize on it, and they will have a huge advantage. If the defense knows what play is coming, if the batters know what pitch is coming, etc., etc... you get the point.

This is essentially what happens to the Rockets because of their "Harden style offense". They become waaay too predictable, and the defenses can load up, and take away the main options. And because the Rockets don't diversify their offense enough, they don't have a quality plan B, or plan C, or plan D. And that's what kills them in close games, and in the playoffs.

 

Ok fchowder lol aka this troll account

 

All of this. Just know....EVERY loss the Rockets take at the margins is on TILMAN. The Rockets can make moves to add to their bench to win close games but it will take adding on salary.

 

Guys last night was not that bad

We just won 8 straight

This is part of a tough stretch of our schedule and we just got done playing an exhausting B2b.

Denver had a little more juice than us last night and harden had one of his first off games in a while . He IS still human.

Frankly I was impressed by the bench at the end.

It’s still early in the season , what we do when James is doubled like that ... we will have to continue practicing. But I expect it to get much better .

We were pretty bad on 3’s last night too .

If it becomes a trend then I’ll start to get worried , but you could do much worse for one night efforts , say Miami.

How’s House btw ? Any update ?

 

or perhaps its the other way around players assing it caused tilman not to want to pay LT

 

The Harden and D'antoni pairing will never change it seems, and it they will run the same offense we've seen for the last 3 years. When we win, James is top 5 ever, hitting the insane shots that we know him for. And when we lose, it's because "he has no help." Granted, injuries are hurting us atm.

Yet, maybe it's less about james having "no help" whatsoever, and more that the system disallows our guys to ever catch a rhythm or touch the ball, unless it's to give it right back to Harden. If I were the other 29 teams in the league, I'd do exactly what the Nuggets did to us yesterday: delayed trapping/double teaming ... Let Harden get 4-5 dribble between the legs and then send the guy over to double. Harden's passes out of double teams are so slow and not precise, that by the time the ball gets there, the recipient of the pass only has a half step at most of daylight on the guy recovering. I really think we need more sets to be run throughout the game ... For Harden and everyone else.

My fear is that similar to last year, winning most of the regular season against below par teams will only solidify to Mike and James that they're unstoppable, or that the only reason for losses is "bad shooting nights." Biggest test comes Thursday

 

If the Rockets role player hit their shots, all this grumbling and gnashing of teeth would be moot.

Rockets need better role players, period.

 

I agree that's it's still early, and they definitely still need time for the team to get acclimated to Westbrook, and vice versa.

What I think worries many people though, is the fact that the defensive schemes used by Denver, Milwaukee, GS, etc., whether it's double teaming, shading, hedging, forcing to one side, or whatever tactics they choose... have not been adequately countered and/or adjusted to by D'Antoni, Harden, and the rest of the team.

They haven't shown the ability to overcome those tactics at all, and to the naked eye it doesn't really look like they have even tried to incorporate any specific counter strategies. That's why I think there has been so much criticism of D'Antoni this past year or so.

Westbrook could be one answer and counter to some of those defenses against the Rockets, but that truly is the big "If". I don't think Westbrook and Harden will find the answers or make the adjustments by themselves. They haven't done so in their whole careers so far... I think they need to be guided there.

And that's why the question may ultimately lie with D'Antoni.
Will D'Antoni use his tools that way? Will he recognize the problems and make the proper adjustments? Will he empower Westbrook and the rest of the team with solid, new strategies and schemes? Will he lead them, and make them better?

 

MDA fully empowers and encourages shooters to shoot. Every single player, from stars to scrubs, have validated this.

The role players indecisiveness was atypical and certainly not coached.

 

Golden State cant play us straight up, Harden cooked every defender on their team pretty much last year in the playoffs. People have been sending doubles at us for years, its not new....still the team look unprepared last night, I want to see how they face Denver next time.

The ONLY stragety im concerned about is the Bucks/Jazz strategy of forcing Harden right, we still havent been effective against it.

 

I get what you mean, and that goes right back to the point about being too predictable as well. One of the absolute worst things that teams/people can do in sports or competitive games is to be "Too Predictable". That gives a huge competitive advantage to the opposing team, or player.

That's one of the main reasons why Jordan and Olajuwan eventually had to ease back on their shooting numbers, and start trusting their teammates and their system more. They realized that they could only go so far challenging double and triple teams. As great as they were, they learned that having more diversity in their offense made them a little more random, gave them a little more freedom and space to operate, made them a little more engaged and balanced... and it made them waay less predictable... and thus, their teams became much harder for opposing teams to defend.

That's why I think a lot of people feel like D'Antoni and Harden need to mix it up more.

 

this predictable claim always made me chuckle. harden is so "predictable" that he became an mvp despite that, is widely considered one of the most unguardable players this league has seen. people have been trying to stop him for years and yet they still cannot.

 

Put it this way: far better for the Rockets to experience a wonky defense and prepare to play it differently now, in November, than in the playoffs. If the NBA were like the NFL then all the teams would be hiding their cards until it mattered in May. But because the NBA regular season is so long, and because home court and seeding are so important, we have the luxury of receiving teams' best shots ASAP and being able to adjust to them now rather than later.

In the game last night it was a minor variation from the double teams that Harden has had to deal with pretty much since he went God mode in 2016-2017 when d'Antoni came over. This double was a bit delayed, though, so we'll have to adjust. The thing we used to do when it was just Harden and then a bunch of role players was have Capela set a high screen, like so high that it was only 5-10ft away from halfcourt. Then, Harden gets a running start at the basket with two defenders chasing him while trying to corral a rolling Capela as well.

Now, because of the delayed double, we may have to resort to something else, something that I and many Rockets fans have been waiting with bated breath to see for a while now: have Russell bring the ball up the court regularly, get Harden into off-ball situations where he's moving and being screened for, and then get Harden the ball in advantageous positions. You know, like GSW, SAS, MIL, BOS and all the other good teams out there do it!

Your move, MDA.

 

Have to disagree with you on this bro.

The TEAM has been stopped each and every year since Harden has been in Houston. Harden has been frustrated by opposing teams defenses and has underperformed in more than a few of the biggest and most important playoff games... and especially in some of the most crucial moments, like game 6's and game 7's.

Look, I don't think anyone is arguing about whether Harden is a GREAT player or not. He's obviously one of the greatest and most talented players of all time.

What many people are saying though, is that no matter HOW GREAT any 1 player is... it's simply a bad recipe for 1 player to dominate the ball and the shots so much, that the teams offensive game becomes too predictable, and so much easier to defend against. That just makes it so much harder to win games, period.

 

yeah that's the point. what you're stopping is the actual team not harden. you know how you minimize teams that say let the others beat us as much as possible. stop worrying about LTS and actually spend to get some quality players rather than fringe ones that can easily be out of the league on any given night. you have an mvp player in his prime and yet choose not to spend to get him anything more than a min level supporting cast. makes no sense

you don't want 1 player dominating the ball? get some better players to put the ball in their hands then bc as of right now, there isn't anyone on this team i would want handling it other than harden

 

You picked the wrong game to push this agenda - Harden trusting his teammates/Harden handling ball too much/offense too predictable.

Harden should have had 25 assists last night, that is how much he trusted his teammates. His teammates, outside of Russ & Clint, completely shyte the bed.

The double team on Harden worked not because Harden held the ball, but because when Harden gave it up to undefended teammates they could not hit wide open shots to save their life or they passed it back to Harden/Russ who were defended.

1 loss in 9 games and the "I told you so" fans come swarming out of beneath the rocks. This loss was not on Harden, Russ, Clint, Morey or MDA (everyone's favorite punching bags).

Blame Tilly, blame the officiating, blame the Nuggets (they are used to altitude and game planned the hell out of this game), blame global warming if necessary but Rockets will not win every single game.

These unrealistic expectations are silly, but not as silly as all the extreme hot takes after just the 4th loss of the season.

 

Hmmm. I didn't make any conclusions at all based on last night's game.