Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been touting Allen on this BB for some time now. Allen is available and Allen is a PERFECT compliment to Yao Ming. You would be swaping an All Star for an All Star. Allen is only 1.5 years older and has solid playoff experience. Clearly a veteran that can help lead the team by example. If we move Francis, I want to move him for someone that is CONSISTANT, because that is what we need.
Thing that kills me. . . . they want to trade steve . . .but then admit we need to upgrade the forwards as if the upgrades alone would not do the trick but a str8 swap hinrich for SF would do NOTHING for this team unless we upgrade the Forward spots Rocket River
Can Hinrich run a fastbreak? If so, I wouldn't say that a straight Stevie for Hinrich swap wouldn't make us a better team. Don't get me wrong; I don't want to 'get rid' of Steve. I'd love to see him and Yao lead us to another championship. However, he's no longer untouchable and so I would pull the trigger on a trade that makes us better like some of the ones mentioned.
The reason the number is so high is because our backup PG's are just aweful. We had Moochie and now we 60 year old Mark Jackson who shoots everything outside of 15 feet short. Cat's back up is Stevie and JJ JJ's back up is Cat in the three guard lineup or Pike Cato's backup is MoT and Padgette Yao's backup is Cato but MoT is always in the lineup when this happens.
To add on to what rockbox said: Our PG rotation gives us the worst net production, even worse than PF where we start Kelvin Cato. Since Steve plays 40 minutes per game, that means some of that has to fall on him. Especially since some of the deficit categories are assists and turnovers. Steve's stats this season are nearly identical to what Charlie Ward was putting up in New York (prorated for minutes). That means that replacing Steve with Charlie Ward should have no significant effect. Unless you think Charlie Ward would be the most important person on the Rockets, then it would be hard to argue the same for Steve, especially using a stat that factors in the contributions of other soooo much as +/-.
I also dont feel that the Bulls will trade Hinrich. I think he is the most untouchable person on that team in the Bulls eyes. But I am sure the Bulls will field offers for Curry and Chandler. In fact I would not be surprised if one of them was moved in the offseason.
On the face of it, why would the Bulls when they have Hinrich on a sweet rookie contract? Why? Because Steve is a star in this League, even if he's not always seen that way here, and he would bring a buzz to Chicago that they haven't had in a long time. Obviously, the salaries don't match, and the Rocks should get a lot for Steve in a trade, so Chicago has to give more than Hinrich. I think Chicago would consider it even more, ironically, if we're respectable in the playoffs this year.
2.0, 1.7, 1.6, 1.7, 1.7 Those are Steve's A/TO from his 1st season (his best) to his current one. Consistent, abosolutely, solid for a 1 guard, absolutely not. Further, if HE IS ALMOST THERE, I don't want to be where THERE IS. SF can be an outstanding scorer, but it is a pretty solid case SF just is not capable of being a steady, disciplined, floor general. First, the answer is #2. The problem I have with him is not his shooting. the problem are with his discipline, floor sense and decision making--as evidenced in his assist/TO ratio. Imagine what the Rockets would do if they had a positive TO differential, yet they have had a horrible TO differential every year Francis has been the point guard. It would be one thing if it was 1 year or 2 years, but 5 years is an unmistakable pattern. That is just silly. It it obvious reason #1 the Rockets are headed for the playoffs is the development of Yao Ming. Reason number 2a and 2b are the defense JVG has got them playing and the all around year Cuttino Mobley has provided. How many more years of bad decision making and lack of court discipline as reflected in mediocre total assists and outright piss poor A/TO ratio for a point guard do you want. And you can't say the TO are just a result of SF greater offensive game than most PGS, because Marbury consistently does and Baron, Bibby, Nash, Kidd and others have shown they can score AND do the things PGs are supposed to do. It is not giving up on Francis, it is recognizing he and the team would be better off if comparable but better fitting talent is exchanged. SF would be happier and more effective on a team built on his ISO, and the Rockets need better meshing talent and Francis is the most valuable trade asset. Believe me, if Cato or Mot could fetch what SF would, I would argue to trade them. But their is questioning his BB brain and his court discipline, and these faults really hinder the Rockets. All he has proven is he can make a bad team respectable and entertaining because of his individual talent. There is value for this (send him to a cruddy team and turn him loose), but not so much value to his game with where the Rockets are headed (Yao Ming and team offense centered). 5 years, different coaches, different players, same problems. The resuts are in in my book.
Oh, I would want more than Ray Allen or Hinrich for SF. Ray is close, but he is 1.5 years older, is lesss explosive as an individual player, has been injured more and is up for contract negotiations. Seattle would have to include a little more (#1 pick, another player exchange that favors the Rockets like Rad for Mot), I think they would jump on this deal. Like I said, SF is more explosive and more capable to carry a team by himself where Ray is more of a role player extrordinare. Also, Hinrich looks solid, but just compare his rookie year with Francis (or Ray Allen's 2nd season where he was the same age of Hinrich). Hinrich is just a different caliber of talent than SF or Ray. Now if we could get Hinrich as our 1 and solidify the 4 spot via another player (if the Docs approve Chandler) or their #1 pick if it like #5 overall as principals for Francis this deal could work. Except for the potential embarrassment (they passed on Francis one) this would be a big move by bringing a legit star talent to the Bulls.
I think that Hinrich has played his way into a rather untradable commodity in the eyes of the Bulls management. However, Steve still has a very high trade value around the league. I think that a Francis for Hinrich and Chandler deal is only possible if Chicago can land a top PF prospect in next year's draft and if we are willing to take a bad contract off the Bulls' hands, which is something that the Rockets probably won't do (and shouldn't do). Don't underestimate Chandler's ability. He does a lot of things on the court when he's healthy.
Basketball is a business, and I don't think anyone is denying his abilities and/or heart but the fact of the matter is that the pieces of the puzzle do not fit. Francis and Yao I believe cannot coexist and continue to dominate while both are playing to their full potential. One of them has got to go and I don't think everybody upstairs is ready to give up on Yao. I love francis but it hurts to see him alter his style of play. He's becoming something I believe he wasn't meant to be which is a true point guard. I still think he'd be one of the best shooting guards in the leauge if he switched but a point guard?? Yeah he's made strides but I truly think he's not happy having to adjust and it would serve him best if he went back to doing what he does best (which is slash and shoot freely). I hope he does prove me wrong throughout the rest of the season because i would love to see him become a true point guard a la kidd or stockton but tell you the truth, i don't see it happening. Now hinrich and chandler..we just found the missing pieces of the puzzle... ...........................
I never liked Chandler's game myself and I would surprised if he could amount to a good, consistent player in this league. I believe a potential trade of SF and MoT for Hinrich, JYD, and AD makes sense for both teams. SF and MoT could provide instant help to the Bulls team that is desprate for some playoff basketball. In a confrenece that is so weak SF could push the bulls into the 8th spot. AD is of no use in the Bulls lineup now they would gladly let us take on his huge contract. The Rox could use AD's exprience and presence in the post. He has a good midrange jumper and tough rebounding skill for the starting PF spot and can also play backup C. JYD is an energy guy also with a fat contract that can produce off the bench at small forward and some power forward. This trade get rid of two bone headed black holes for smart, hussle, and exprience, which are qualities more suited for a team built around Yao and JVG's system. After this trade the Rox should try deal Cato and Cat for a good big scoring SG. I dun have a name in mind for now I was thinking bot TMac but I doubt the Magic would give him up unless it's for another super star or for some top picks in return. I don't think Pierce's game would fit well so it's better not to get him. Ray Allan would be a FA nxt yr otherwise I would gladly trade Cato and Cat for him...maybe throw Boki in there too.
A trade like this would work with the Heat Cat + Cato for Eddie Jones + Samaki Walker + up coming 1st round draft pick The main reason for this trade is to obtain the service of Jones. He's no longer as good as he was back in the Lakers days, however he could still play very tough D and has great playoff exprience on a winning team. He's also a good team guy that plays a smart game. So if I'm the Rocket GM I would try to work my lineup to something like this: Hinrich/MJ/ Jones/Pike/Griffin JJ/JYD/Griffin AD/S. Walker/JYD/Padgett Yao/AD/Padgett (pretty weak on the backup C position now would need to fix it)
While you are comparing rookie stats why don't you compare Steves current stats to his rookie stats. After this comparison you will realize that SF "2004" is just not the same caliber as SF "2000". And he is certainly NOT playing like a Max contract player. Hinrich may never be as good as good as Steve was but Steve might not either and I'm tired of waiting. Hinrich gives us something to look forward to.
A lot will be determined by how they play out the string but... looking at it today... I'm thinking Hinrich is valuable enough to get with just him and a bad contract, like AD. Steve + Boki for Hinrich and AD, or something. Sure, that's giving up a lot. But the corollary is that we'd have the missing pieces, boom, just like that. Hinrich is perfect for Yao, Steve is perfect for Chicago. Let's not get too hung up on Chandler. AD actually would serve very well for a few years, as spot starter or backup at both positions. Now if we could get the sweet shooting 2 in say, Brent Barry, then we've got a nice backcourt firing at high percentage and passing. There's also guys like Richie Frahm who's 6'5" and shoots lights out, but Sonics have so many guards they don't know what to do. If we could move Cat and Cato for a big 3/4 - Donyell Marshall, Al Harrington, now we're rebuilding a machine around Yao that can deliver the ball to the big man, hit the open shot, play solid basketball. Moving Steve is just step 1 in making this Yao's team. We can afford to take a trade imbalance if we more than make it up with improved star power for the big man.
What in the world makes anyone here think Chicago would want overpriced Steve Francis for a good, young, cheap PG like Hinrich who is probably already a better PG than Francis is, certainly a far, far smarter one? Francis is now about the 12th best PG in the NBA and sinking fast. And don't give me that "they need a star" crap.
