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Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by basketballholic, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

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    I guess I phrased my question poorly - I meant to ask if that is coming 100% from your own guessing, or any indication from Horford, the Celtics, or any other NBA "source".
     
  2. basketballholic

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    No direct info. Putting together ancillary facts and understanding what's at stake for Celtics and some info ive been given that Ainge wants to get Hayward gone before free agency if at all possible.


    By there are no rumors floating about Ainge wanting to move Hayward by Sunday. Ainge had been pumping Haywood's work and his potentialfor a great season next season.
     
  3. Manos

    Manos Member

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    b/c they end up with a replacement for Irving, and a young 5 on a nice contract to replace Horford, while getting to move the Hayward contract in the process which is just as ugly as CPs
     
  4. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

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    LOL you assume because you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist?
     
  5. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

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    Hayward - 2 seasons left at a combined $67M
    CP3 - 3 seasons left at a combined $124M

    Not exactly the same, especially as CP3 is five years older and his continued decline is more or less guaranteed. Hayward's 29 and his injury recovery is at least a possibility.
     
  6. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    this makes alot of sense because in essence this team really only has 1 true star and a declining player being paid like one.
     
  7. basketballholic

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    You said it was everywhere. It ain't.
     
  8. BeardNation13

    BeardNation13 Member

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    I understand that @cyberx is a certified insider.

    Has or can anyone vouch for @basketballholic ? The guy seems to know a lot of behind the stuff happenings but hasn't gathered the audience that cyberx has. Why is that?

    Also it seems certain from @bmd and @Rasheed that @Plowman and @Codman are frauds
     
  9. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    Several users have enthusiastically vouched for him. Oddly enough, most of those got banned for some mysterious reason.

    Burners? You be the judge.
    @Codman is absolutely NOT a fraud. Real insiders get a lot of info and sometimes it pans out. Often it doesn't. That's the way it works. @Codman is legit. So are @cyberx and @ch44.
     
    D-rock, saleem, Richie_Rich and 5 others like this.
  10. BeardNation13

    BeardNation13 Member

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    Appreciated. I'll take what he says with grain of salt then and pay more attention to Codman and ch44
     
    saleem likes this.
  11. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Can you point me to one post of Codman's that has actually turned out to be even remotely true?

    For the record, I think cyberx is legit. I have said many times that he is the only person on this site that I feel actually gets some legit information.
     
  12. Manos

    Manos Member

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    True, Paul has an extra year on his contract, but trying to find a top tier PG to replace Irving isn't going to be easy, neither would be getting out from under Hayward's. This would kill 2 birds with one stone for them. In doing this they pay an extra year of salary, but they're also picking up Capela in this deal who is young, talented and on very team friendly contract and filling a spot they currently have no one on the roster to fill. Paul had an off season last year which was a quite a drop in production, but I think a lot of that had to do with him not being the primary ball handler. If he were to move t a team where he'd be playing the point the lion share of time, I think his numbers would bounce back closer to his historical norm. Is thsi deal perfect? No, but it certainly addresses issues both teams have, nets them something rather than losing Horford for nothing and allows them to shed some salary in the process.
     
  13. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

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    CP3 isn't a top tier PG anymore, and Boston's not dumb enough to take on an extra $50M+ in cap commitment to make this deal. (I like how you gloss over the fact that the difference in cap obligations is close to $60M. That's huge)

    Capela's a nice player, but his addition is not worth screwing up their cap situation for three more years. If they wanted to tie up too much cap money in a declining veteran, they could just pay Horford.
     
    #153 PlayBall, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  14. basketballholic

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    Consider me a fraud. I'll join that list.

    Tard.
     
    #154 basketballholic, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  15. basketballholic

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    So ask yourself

    Who told Woj that we were shopping Capela, Ego, and PJ for a pick into another team's cap space?

    And why would they leak that to Woj?

    Who is Woj? How does Woj get all this info and is able to break trades, and draft picks first?

    Let me explain. Woj is the clearinghouse for the NBA teams. Period. Woj has an agreement with the front office of most if not all the teams. If they feed him the trades first when they are agreed to and the draft picks before they occur then they can also use him to propagate rumors to their benefit.

    It's basically automatic. Teams agree on a trade, they notify Woj (probably a text), then at some point, they notify the league office. At the draft the process is the same. Notify Woj, make the pick.

    This gives Woj great legitimacy. If Woj says it it's happening.

    In exchange for that Woj gives the teams the ability to propagate rumors to their advantage.

    For example, Team A may be in deep talks with Team B on a trade but Team B is wavering on one little piece of the deal. Team A can text Woj that they have talked to Team C about trading Player X and talks are picking up. Team B then has to decide if its real or not and either fold to get the deal done or back off completely.

    Another example, Team A and Team B have agreed to a deal in principle but both teams agree that the deal could possibly be better for each of them if they leak it to Woj that it's almost done, nearing completion, or has been agreed upon to be executed at some future date to allow for other teams to call each team and inquire about other pieces or redirecting some of the trade pieces involved. They can announce a deal without completing the deal and then wait to see what else materializes.

    This is what creates most Wojbombs. Teams hold actual transactions tight. They all know how the Woj system works. So most deals come out of nowhere. Two teams enter into trade talks and they go dark. They agree no leaks. If it leaks they know the other team isn't serious about a deal. Meantime both teams will leak misinformation to Woj to get other teams to talk to them. Then they get the deal agreed to with the team that they wanted without leaks and they give it to Woj and boom goes the dynamite. Wojbomb

    Woj is a tool, guys. He spreads as much misinformation as he does fact. That's how he's able to get the Wojbombs. Understandomendo????? Because he has created credibility he is also a tool. This is the way the game is played.

    So who leaked what to woj in the Houston Philly Butler scenario?

    We're shopping 3 guys into cap space for a first round pick to send to Philly for Butlet SnT. And........... wait for it..... Philly is confident that they can re-sign both Butler and Tobias.





    So here's facts:

    A. Jimmy can walk for nothing.

    B. Philly is not guaranteed they can sign a max player.

    C. Philly gave up
    1. Covington (inferior player)
    2. Saric (former #12 pick on 4th season of rookie deal who was just traded along with the 11th pick for the 6th pick. That means his draft pick value is non lottery, perhaps in the twenties)
    3. Bayless (salary filler)
    4. A future second rounder

    when they traded for Butler and a draft bust.


    Isn't it reasonable for Philly to take
    1. Gordon (a better player than Covington and a player that cam be easily traded for cap space)
    2. a couple first rounders

    I mean doesn't that make them whole while giving them the option to still recapture capspace? Absolutely it does. And Philly knows it too. They have to cooperate if Butler wants to come here or else Brand should be fired. They're guaranteed nothing in free agency. Snc they are likely not going to attract anybody if Butler and Tobias both walk.

    So we leak to Woj we're looking for the highest draft pick possible. We've already got 2 picks. Heck we've got 4 picks. Why do we need another one? Gotta have one to send to Philly and we've got 4 of them?

    Are we gonna send Philly 5 picks for Butler?????? Lord no. It's misdirection. We are shopping Capela..... into a teams cap space for the most possible value we can get to synergize a sign and trade deal. And we leaked it this way to get teams to call. We're also shopping EGo for draft pick value on Philly's behalf in case they want to go straight to cap space. And we're also taking advantage of the opportunity to shop PJ for a possible future trade.. in another year.

    Philly meanwhile is leaking they think they're gonna sign both guys. Why? Reasons are obvious. They'd like to drive away suitors. They'd like to convince Butler and Tobias to stay. They'd like both guys to stay at a discount. And they'd like to attract another max free agent (Kyrie) if they get Tobias to stay. (Kyrie and Tobias are buds and probably going to Nets together.)

    Back to us. Our trade talks for Capela are just a continuation of what's already been happening. We've been working on trading him since the end of the season.
    So basically what we can deduce is we are waiting for Saturday, which is opt in day for everybody...Nene, Butler, Horford. If we're looking for a cap space trade for Capela doesn't it make sense that we're simply looking for the best value for Capela we can get? Even if it's a pick and expiring contract or expiring contract and rookie contract guy? We're just hunting maximum assets for Capela and Ego so we'r can get a deal done.... SATURDAY.

    If Butler wants to come here it will most likely be an opt- in trade Saturday. And will likely involve all of Capela, Gordon, and Nene with other salary coming back.

    If Butler does not opt in we are probably going to pivot to other deals. And that has or will be messaged to Butler through Harden. You've got to read through all the rumors while understanding the team and its cap situation and the players involved. We're going to give Butler an ultimatum if we haven't already. Either opt in and force a trade if you want to come here or we're gone. There's too many other deals to make this summer and even Saturday to wait it out for Butler and then be hamstrung with a hard cap with little space and no further tradeable salaries. The SnT stuff is all false bologna. Not going to happen. An opt-in trade is the ONLY acquisition of Butler that makes sense at this time. And if it happens it'll be a huge out of the blue #Wojbomb Saturday involving several other players that will shock a lot of people who don't really understand the process.

    Do you think Harden has 10 mill that he could loan to Butler to tide him over for a couple years?????
     
    #155 basketballholic, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  16. basketballholic

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    So today we hear Philly is willing to participate in a sign- and- trade. We're one step from them being willing to participate in an opt in and trade. And when that happens we'll start hearing all sorts of rumors involving 3- way deals with Boston or Brooklyn. Smart and Haywood's names EGo probably start dropping. Maybe even 4- easy deals.

    On to the finish line.... Saturday.
     
    #156 basketballholic, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
    Rudyc281 likes this.
  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    FWIW, I don't think it's PHILLY we need to do the opt-in trade scenario, it's Butler. The reports are he doesn't want to do it, he wants his max now. Even your own "report" said that people say he wants his money NOW. That's the issue facing the opt-in scenario. I think we are already there where the Sixers accept he might leave and want to get something for him, now we just need him to decide to take the one year hit and get it back next year.

    Come on Jimmy. It makes ALL the difference.
     
    Deuce, J Sizzle and daywalker02 like this.
  18. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Conflicting reports......Or maybe The Athletic wants to see this happening no matter what.

    I am not 100% sold on the Sixers are accepting he might leave news. I need to see more sources reporting it.

    I think some in the war room accept and it might even be Elton Brand but I doubt everyone is down with it.

    Sixers didn't sign a deal with Houston to exclusively deal Butler to them. It makes some sense but they could say no to them/change their minds.

    Time is on Sixers' side and not Morey's.

    That said, I can see both sides panicking though.
     
    #158 daywalker02, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  19. basketballholic

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    Obviously now with the report that Philly is willing to cooperate which was true all along (I gave the reasoning above) it is up to Jimmy.

    And obviously Jimmy wants his money now... like any player does.

    So we already could deduce that. The key is.... will he opt in?


    :::::::::::::::

    If he agrees to opt in....... then there's one more nuance waiting to be unfurled. And that will be what happens AFTER the #Wojbomb and before the moratorium.
     
  20. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    It's interesting, right?

    You'd think...if he wants his money, he'd be a lock to go back to Philly because they can offer him the most. Wouldn't even entertain other offers. Why go to Houston if you're all about money (which I don't think is a bad thing)?

    If he really wants to go to Houston and doesn't listen to Morey about the advantages of opting in, I guess I don't see the point. We'll see what happens.
     

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