1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Both CP3 and Harden are averaging fewer minutes this season than most of their previous seasons.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by flamingdts, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    11,558
    Likes Received:
    4,502
    There has been a lot of complaints about minute management for D'Antoni, and whether there is concerns of overplaying. However, Harden is averaging just below 36 minutes per game which would be a career low since joining Houston. Chris Paul at 31.9 minutes per game would be the 2nd lowest of his entire career.

    Trevor Ariza's minutes have remained fairly stable at 35, but he has taken a noticeable amount of games off,

    Note that additionally, the Rockets current play style provide more "on-court" rest for both Harden and CP3. They take turns playmaking, giving them far more opportunities to catch their breath.
     
  2. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    17,147
    Likes Received:
    8,887
    the metric should be a combination of minutes played and usage rate. What Chris Paul allows Harden to do, is sit back and rest even when Harden is in the game.

    Of every player who has played at least 1000 minutes this year, Harden is still number one in usage rate by a good margin. This is also the highest its ever been in his career.

    Eyeball test says Harden looks much more rested. Maybe usage rate is a terrible metric. I dunno.
     
    #2 tallanvor, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    DonKnock, D-rock, Stormy1234 and 4 others like this.
  3. Lawlruschang

    Lawlruschang Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    882
  4. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    22,025
    Likes Received:
    4,552
    yeah, it definitely doesn't feel like james is being worn down. obviously it makes sense his usage rate must be high because he's leading the league in scoring and almost assists in only 36 minutes, but it seems easy and like it's in the flow. i would play him less in blowouts but it seems we are doing a good job of general 6 minute stretches of rest each half and sticking to it.
     
    darin1998, bronxfan and Stormy1234 like this.
  5. Tfor3

    Tfor3 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    19,739
    Likes Received:
    22,733
    This
     
    Lawlruschang likes this.
  6. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,059
    Likes Received:
    16,011
    He just needs to be fully rested for the playoffs.

    I think we've done a pretty good job with him so far . I'd like to see us get a bit more aggressive towards reducing mins / having him skip a game or two down the stretch .

    Agree with the idea that CP3 helps him conserve more energy on the floor . In the playoffs , I want him using more of that energy on D
     
  7. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    13,849
    Likes Received:
    15,108
    What’s most interesting is the stat from the ringer that we are 9th in pace yet we are last in distance ran and average speed?

    So, while sure lots of minutes are played some games, we are really allowed to rest on offense because of how the system is set up.

    Also, the always switching defense also saves lots of energy. No fighting through screens and hard contact or grabbing and pulling. No more sprinting and chasing down your guy around a screen to contest a shot.

    Plus, with shared ball handling duties it’s just a rememarkable amount of strain lifted off either cp3 or harden physically AND mentally. Both of who this far in their careers had to make the decision and the “right play” the very single time down. Always had to be the #1 focus of the defense.

    Just lotttts more rest all around this year...
     
    #7 BigMaloe, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  8. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,574
    Likes Received:
    56,317
    hmmm, maybe I'd say this differently.

    They convert that "on-court rest" to better defensive play. Paul is helping Harden catch his breath on offense, which he spends on more defensive energy. (Of course, me saying that is admitting to him taking defensive possessions off in previous years,,, er, argh, media conspiracy, urg, glurp)

    Plus, the league added two weeks to the schedule, so there are less b2b and more true rest during the season.
     
  9. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,684
    Likes Received:
    7,443
    Take into account that both guys have missed games due to injury this season and therefor been playing some games while 'coming back from injuries'... and I certainly hope they're playing less minutes than previous years...
    MDA's minute management is horrible - always has been... hopefully at this point he has enough vets that he will trust on the floor that we can maintain a reasonable dispersal of minutes... although based on his comments regarding Green (before the Ariza injury) - I'm cautiously optimistic...
    MDA is a stat padder... hopefully he'll be willing to run a longer rotation if he doesnt think his precious stats will be any less...
     
    #9 kjayp, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    Stormy1234 likes this.
  10. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,466
    Likes Received:
    152
    Will we finally see a 11/12 men rotation?
     
  11. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,684
    Likes Received:
    7,443
    compared to last year...
    Harden is down .6 min a game - for a 1.6% reduction... less than 2% reduction - and we saw how last year ended...
    CP3 is actually increased his minutes by .5 over last year...
     
    Stormy1234 likes this.
  12. Ozzy

    Ozzy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    156
    Apparently according to nba.com, the Rockets have the easiest schedule by far so far. I wonder if that has something to do with the amount of success we have had
     
  13. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    19,184
    Likes Received:
    28,042
    Not having to play the Rockets certainly helps
     
    justtxyank, Rudyc281, D-rock and 10 others like this.
  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,876
    Likes Received:
    43,284
  15. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,560
    Likes Received:
    1,209
    I’d say another important factor that can’t be measured is the mental fatigue that comes with being the primary ball handler and play maker. The trust that Harden and Paul have for one another must be a huge benefit psychologically. They may be playing 30-35 minutes but the weight of the entire teams success is evenly distributed across them both.

    I hope that’ll pay dividends later in the playoffs as much as their physical conservation of energy.
     
    D-rock and Deuce like this.
  16. koby1868

    koby1868 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    622
    Likes Received:
    275
    Those minutes will probably be able to come down a little more with the addition of ISO Joe! Hopefully Ariza's minutes down the stretch will decrease a bit as well, especially with the way Green has been playing. It's ok to get Luc, Ariza and Tucker to play less minutes until the playoffs. It should be all about going into the post season healthy and rested for a deep run!
     
  17. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,577
    Likes Received:
    35,648
    BUT, BUT the #RestNarrative.

    People go overboard on the Rest thing.

     
    D-rock and YOLO like this.
  18. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Concentrate on usage, not minutes.
     
    kjayp and Stormy1234 like this.
  19. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,684
    Likes Received:
    7,443
    What's your explanation for game 6 vs Spurs last year?
    Was it burnout - our do you prescribe to one of the more nefarious explanations?
    #thosewhodonotlearnfromthepastaredestinedtorepeatit ;) lol
     
  20. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,684
    Likes Received:
    7,443
    again I hear and appreciate what ur saying... and I agree Harden is probably taking less wear n tear than last season... but its still the MDA fast pace run run run game plan...
    Id rather error on the side of caution and get a far more rested team going into the playoffs... and give new arrivals ample opportunity to get acclimated with actual real game minutes...

    After game 6 last year, MDA promised a better job managing minutes and having guys more well rested for the playoffs... less than 2% dont get it...
    Keep in mind guys like CP3, Ariza, etc aren't spring chickens... Before his injury MDA was runnin the hell outta Ariza...
     
    D-rock likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now