People said Dirk Nowitzki was too soft and not a good enough defender and would never be able to lead a team to a championship. People said Steph Curry was too injury prone, that he was always going to have problems with his ankles, and wouldn't be able to win a championship. People said Lebron was afraid of big moments in big games and would pass up big shots and was not clutch enough to win a championship. People, in Houston, said that Hakeem was too selfish and wouldn't be able to lead a team to a championship. All of those players had a couple of things in common. They improved and evolved in their own game as well as they had other pieces and players that fit their style of play. The Rockets almost traded Hakeem- but then he got better and we got the right pieces around him and (with a little luck) won back to back championships. Now the thought of us ever trading Hakeem seems ridiculous. The Lakers even had rumors of maybe trying to trade Kobe back when they were struggling but then they traded for Pau and other pieces and won back to back championships. Now the thought of them ever trading Kobe seems ridiculous. It's funny how winning a championship can completely change the perception of a certain player, isn't it? James Harden can be frustrating at times. He will have one game where he is absolutely amazing and then another game where he is awful. So does Lebron. So did MJ. I am convinced that Harden is good enough to be the best player on a championship team. But he will not be able to do that unless we build the team around him and around his system. And then hope and pray for that last little bit of luck that is also involved with any team that wins a championship. You don't just trade that away.
And I'm saying that's way more satisfying than what Harden is doing with this team in the playoffs. The results are probably similar (getting eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round in the PO), but on an emotional level, the way Harden sometimes breaks down and almost gives up during big moments under pressure is just too much to handle for some fans. Of course, feel free to disagree. If we can somehow demote Harden to the 2nd or 3rd best player status on this team, then of course there is no reason to trade him. But one thing is for certain : we are not winning anything big with him being the alpha-dog.
Agreed. I don't know how a player can "learn" to be the alpha dog or if it's something you're born with but maybe losses like last night help develop that alpha dog mentality.
Ok. We can agree to disagree. Sure, the hustle of those teams with Scola and Brooks and Hayes was great. But I wasn't satisfied with a first or second round playoff exit then and I'm not now. The difference is we have a player that has the potential to lead us to a championship if the right team and right complementary pieces are found around him. Finding the right complementary pieces around that kind of player can be hard, but finding a player with the potential to be that is the hardest part to find. The super-role player teams didn't have that. No matter how much Battier, Scola, Hayes, Brooks and Landry hustled and played with heart, we saw their ceiling. They were never going to be able to hustle their way to a championship.
He's just not there when it counts and seems like this is an annual reoccurence. He's definitely a great scorer but there's more to basketball than that.
Youngsters . . . . .. . . . .. . . . I just remember the whole town wanted to trade Hakeem in 1992 Rocket River
I'll say this: eight years ago, T-Mac was on the downside of his career. Fighting knee and back problems, he was in and out of the lineup. In a regular season game with little meaning, he was playing while the team was down by 18 points and ended up coasting for *two plays*, after which Clutch wrote an over the top article entitled "The Day T-Mac Lost The City of Houston" - http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1545/the_day_t-mac_lost_houston/ It was an absurd overreaction at the time. Today, we have a star on our team who has, at the most crucial moments, given up. His apathy and indifference is maddening. We have decisions to make about this team in the offseason, and in this case, it would be completely appropriate to tag this "the day Harden lost the city of Houston."
Reading comprehension needed. But if you believe Harden is without flaw, the GOAT, no player will ever be better than him, then my apologies.
Yes, by looking at their respective careers and performances as Rockets, and not deducing Harden as merely a "rich man's Steve Francis", I am now saying that he is "without flaw, the GOAT, no player will ever be better than him". Precisely put!
Harden/Lin/Parsons + McHale/Morey didn't get us to where we wanted to go. Harden/Howard + McHale/Morey didn't get us to where we wanted to go. Harden/Howard + Bickerstaff/Morey didn't get us to where we wanted to go. Harden/3Squad + MDA/Morey didn't get us to where we wanted to go. Lineups have been tinkered with. Players and coaches have come and gone. Harden and Morey are the 2 constants through the post-Yao era. At what point do we keep tinkering, versus blowing it up? I get that Harden is MVP caliber. Gordon/Williams are 6MotY caliber. MDA is CotY caliber. And as always, Morey is EotY caliber. I'll also state that 1 season does not a decision make, on whether to keep or blow it up. But with GS, SA and CLE all being good, and will probably be so for at least the next 2-3 years, there's no "Oh! We came so close!" in this league. It really is a "if you're not first, you're last" situation. I'm not saying to trade Harden. But to not even entertain the idea of it, would be foolish.
Yes, that argument. That's basically the entire argument that needs discussing. If I think the Rockets can win a ring with Harden as guy #1, then I'm not in favor of trading Harden. Pretty simple. I don't think they can, for reasons previously stated. No, I'm not expecting anyone other than Warriors/Cavs. That goes to my point. Why play for the next 4 years when you're so behind the 8 ball already. Young up and coming stars take a long time to get there. I'm not expecting Lonzo Ball to beat the Warriors. Frankly, I don't like Ball a ton - though do like Fultz an enormous amount, and do like a lot some of the other top talent. It's almost like you didn't read my posts at all, but instead just responded to the general idea of trade Harden or not. I've said, repeatedly, if you put multiple generational talent players around Harden, then sure, keep him. I've asked, repeatedly.... HOW DO YOU DO THAT?? It's nice and all to sit back and say a GM has failed if they haven't done so, but DM can keep trying and reinventing the roster over and over again for the next 5 years. And he can get close. Maybe a REAL all-star joins Harden. Two real all stars?? Doesn't seem likely - just look at the Rockets cap situation, current assets, etc. I don't know if i said it in this thread or another, but basically DM would have to be PERFECT for this to end in a ring. More than perfect, magical almost. Meaning you have to pluck all stars out of the second round. You have to get one or more disgruntled all star players to want to come to Houston and play with Harden. Etc. I think the odds of the above are lower than the odds of Lonzo Ball becoming a top 3 PG in the next 5 years are... and as I mentioned, I don't really like Lonzo Ball that much. I think people get way too caught up in this MVP thing. I don't care about MVPs. They do seem to correlate highly to championship rings or at least used to ... though not always - Nash, Barkley, Malone, DRob (though he eventually got one), AI, Rose, KD (until he agreed to become second fiddle). Like Westbrook, who is going to win the MVP this year. I have no freaking clue how the Thunder win with him. I mean they had almost as perfect a lineup as they could get, they had the coach they wanted in place, they had an historically all time potential great team on the ropes, and couldn't close it out, in part because Russ was Russ... that's not the only reason, but a reason. Meanwhile the Thunder are happy about Russ' amazing, historic season. I'd take Steph 10 times out of 10 over Russ. While I've admitted its as much about the talent around Harden, as Harden ... I also have to call a spade a spade. While Harden has dominated the offensive system we put in place around him in the regular season, I can't look past some things about him that are unlikely to ever change.... principally: 1. Defense. Doesn't play. Barely tries to. While I don't think he is well suited to play perimeter defense against super athletic NBA backourt players... I also can't reconcile how a guy can be so gifted offensively and so horrible defensively. But even if I get past the part where maybe it's just not in him - and again, I really can't... no reason Bev can be a great defender and Harden can't - at least try. Scheme defense doesn't require great defensive fundamentals. It just requires effort. Your leader has to at least preach good defense. 2. Turnovers. His assist number are amazing. His turnover numbers are record breaking. This is especially problematic in the playoffs, where his TO numbers per possession stay constant or rise, and his assist numbers per possession stay constant or decline. Possessions mean more in the playoffs. 3. Reliance on FTAs. I don't mind it that much as a fan. Biased as I am, even I recognize the GSW, Cavs, Spurs style of offense is more exciting to watch than Harden getting fouled on 3's... but they are legit calls, he deserves them, and I can't blame him for maximizing his talent in that way. My problem with it is, again, inevitably in the playoffs, his FTA per possession will go down. As we've seen over and over. Basically, I'm not entirely sure why people are surprised that Harden has now over and over again proven to have disappearing acts in the playoffs? The holes in his game speak to that happening, even though he has great strengths to his game as well. Back to your point, though. Speaking of magic... the Rockets can't magically back their way currently into a roster capable of competing truly at that next tier. Don't have the cap space, or assets. And now don't even have the organizational momentum to attract some of that. They can create cap space for 1 more talented piece. They can get ENORMOUSLY lucky and find a 2nd round talent that turns into an all-star, MAYBE, in 5 years. [which, btw, they can do with or without Harden on the roster... they should always be trying to do that]. They could get pigs fly lucky by Clint developing a 37% three point shot (lol!), Dekker taking a step up to a completely another level (lol!), or Trez developing a 37% three point shot, and the ability to rebound and defend like you'd want (lol!). This ain't happening with this squad. I'll take door number 2. It might be a donkey, or it could be a new car.
Improve the roster around Harden, hoping that he balls in the regular season just like this year. At the same, keep all options open that would drastically change the team in 4-5 years. Like somebody mentioned, it is not likely that the Dubs will relinquish their dominance for the foreseeable future anyway. I am ready to move on from the Harden era, but only if we can get promising young players and early draft picks. I don't think Morey would do a Presti and trade him on the cheap. Harden still has tremendous value, but that window will narrow faster and sooner than what we think. D12 went in 3 short years from a coveted free agent to untradable in a blink of a eye.
Ok, so, blow it up because we aren't going to be the best team ever. Welp. Fair enough. I guess I kind of understand if you truly are taking a "championship or bust" mentality. I think that's a rough way to be a fan, but to each his own. It's easy to say the grass is greener. What I can promise you, however, is that "organizational momentum" or "attractiveness" is not something they will acquire blowing up a 55 win team after their 1st rebuilding year.
Harden is a top 5 player in this league. It is always so easy to throw up your hands and say "blow it up" but getting top players is so hard. There are a TON of franchises that would love Harden on their team. Take the macro view and see how the cracks can be filled to complete the team.
we're stuck with him. just keep trying to build a strong team around him and hope he has that one great playoff series like dirk in 2011. they need to move on from d'antoni tho. he's just not a championship caliber coach.
No kidding. Reading this board today, I don't know how some posters get through day to day life. Do you file divorce papers every time you have a fight with your spouse? Do you quit your job every time your boss makes you mad?
Macro view: Harden is throwing games and is eternally drunk and will never be a will never be on Warren Buffet's level. Or something like that. I'm losing track of all the Clutchfans takes today.
