This summarizes the problem with Harden beautifully. I've believed we should trade him since the 2014 playoffs because you can't win a championship with a star that is so inconsistent. Harden can be brilliant, but in pressure situations and playoff games, he's just as likely (more maybe) to fall apart as he is to rise to the occasion. The only other option is to add a clear HOF caliber player who becomes the team's alpha dog and a PG who can run the offense when Harden inevitably falls apart (or someone who's both if such an option were available). But what are the odds of that? What are the odds Harden would accept this and do the things (set screens, make strong cuts, play defense) necessary for the team to win? None - Harden is not changing his stripes. All the growth we've seen in him has been in the skills he already had. But when it comes to his weaknesses, he's the same guy he was in 2012 and those weaknesses have derailed this team in the playoffs (and the 2015-3016 season) 4 years in a row. You can't count on him for a win when it matters. That being said, the only thing you trade him for is high picks - you won't get real value if you try to get a new cornerstone player.
He took dwert and a host of chuckers to the wcf He took a couple hustlers and shooters to war and almost pulled it off against the fabled Spurs We had a fake ass big man, 2nd fiddle. We have guys who are streaky in production and yet, we still have seen great things. Role players aren't going to win the playoffs. Small players aren't going to win the playoffs. It's time to give up whatever needs giving up for a paul George. It's time to get bigger. We start getting stars and size and still don't get deep into the postseason, then I'll be on board with giving up. It's no secret. Talent and size. Two things this team, for all the great moments and fun times we had this year...two things they lack.
Fair enough. And exactly correct. 10 years ago absolutely you ride with Harden and have a couple years with a legitimate shot. Today... you're talking about rinse wash repeat for the next 4 years. Only there will be more hope as DM keeps tinkering. But fair enough on trade thoughts. I happen to not like Porzingis much. He's ok... not great. And a 7th pick is laughable. A #1 pick... and I get there's no Lebron... but in a guard league with a chance to get a Markelle Fultz, who I believe has future MVP potential himself. Yes. But that's just scouting. Opinions. If you get both Nets first picks I think it's a no brained. That will be another top 3 pick.
$10 bet, I'll give you 10:1 odds Harden doesn't win a ring in Houston as the lead dawg in the next 5 years. Revisit 5-12-22. That's the goal right? That's why the throw up the ball and play. Again... it comes down to how content your are.
Harden's Honeymoon period is over.Les was willing to part with the Dream so i'm sure if Harden has another horrid playoffs next season he is gone.My dislike level went through the roof after that performance. It seemed like he was passing up shots on purpose
I think you may have to trade him for no other reason than he is becoming almost toxic. How do you entice free agents to come play with a guy who most still think is a selfish player on the basketball court and now many believe is a quitter. Not the best selling points.
Why wait until next year? What more evidence do you need? This year everyone expected him to play better because he had a relatively great regular season, yet he failed once again to show up in the playoffs. This is just who he is.
As the OP I definitely agree with this counter. So now let's get to reality. Even being a biased Rockets fan, play GM and explain how the team adds enough talent? That's why when I started this thread I said clearly it's not about hating Harden. He's great. Limited by great. And to be fair I do t think he's limited because he doesn't try. He's just limited. He's completely maximizing his skill set. He struggles in the playoffs against great defensive teams with great defensive wings. Which makes sense. I mean I have absolutely NO confidence that you surround Harden with another legit and another close to all star and they'd win a ring. I still think it would end with heartbreak. But I'd be willing to risk it. But how do you get those players?? DM is not a magician. He needs to somehow create cap space for a Hayward or Blake Griffin. Then he needs to draft in the second round a guy who in less than 3 years can be almost as good as a Draymond type player. Then he has to get another player better than anyone on he roster not named Harden currently. And then the talent will be competitive with the top tier of teams in he league. Basically... he needs to be a magician. I mean throw out some scenarios where that's remotely feasible?? You know what's more likely to happen? The Spurs adding another great piece. Like someone like Kyle Lowry going to San Antonio
You only trade him if you get a star in return. Otherwise you hope he gets more energy and explosiveness back next year. And that he can reduce turnovers, shoot better from 3, play defense, move off the ball, etc
I've never "embraced" Harden as the star and leader of the Rockets like I have past stars. Even Francis. All the talent in the world but no heart. And after so much success ending in mediocrity - again - my ambivalence only continues. I don't like James Harden.
Thats where we disagree. Being relevant and playing in big games is always more rewarding then being irrelevant to me
2 Dude Francis had plenty of heart. He had issues off the court and his shot selection was problematic
He didn't fail to show up in the playoffs. He failed to show up at the end of one game, and for game 6.
Ah...yes...the "You'll never win a ring with Harden!" mindset. Of course. Well...a few things... 1) The Warriors are going to own this league for the forseeable future. If your expecting anybody other than the Warriors or Lebron to win a ring in that time frame, then I'd like to hear who your options are, because let me let you in on a secret...a 30 year old Avery Bradley and Lonzo Ball ain't beating the Warriors or Lebron. 2) Compare our roster to those teams? What's limiting us from beating them? Is it truly Harden? Is he truly the weak link? You think Ryno, Gordon, and Capela are outplaying Durant, Green, Thompson, Curry, and Iguodala, only to be undone by James Harden? Are they doing the same against the defending champs? If you do, then fair enough, but I would say that if you're being realistic, you know that to be untrue. 3) "That's why you throw up the ball and play". I agree. So your strategy is to trade an MVP candidate and our only Top 50 player while he's in his prime? If you're going to blow it up for the 0.000001% chance that we back our way into a team that magically becomes better than the most talented/stacked team maybe in NBA history within the next 5 years, then by all means. I'm right there with ya. I look forward to watching it play out.
He was MVP caliber this year too. Both ended in hugely disappointing ways. Hell...not hugely disappointing, even. Massively, totally, incredibly, unfathomably disappointing. No doubt about it. Doesn't re-write either of their seasons.
His performance against OKC was mediocre despite the numbers, and a lot of his points came from baiting foul-calls that were borderline illegal. He had some good games against the Spurs, but were subsequently cancelled out by really bad ones. Overall, not very impressive.
