I just don't view MVP necessarily the same way. It's kind of a meaningless award to me. Granted most of the time MVP means a championship leader. But Westbrook will be he MVP this year and I just don't see him leading a team to a ring either. Great stats. Not effective against the best competition playing smart composed basketball. That was true last year when he had great talent and true this year when he didn't but averaged a triple double. I'm coming to the conclusion. harden is the same.
Agree somewhat . The "ranking" of a player changes year to year . And a lot of that is based off the situation during the regular season. I think the path to getting one of those guys is damn near impossible . I think we have a better shot at focusing on development and trying to find players that aren't yet at the level we need, but that we think can be brought up to that level. Morey differs from me in this perspective and it's probably what makes him a good GM, he's much more willing to take risks . I agree that harden to point was brilliant and worked out great. That being said , James and Mike can and should work together to further sculpt his role , skills , and impact . I agree that Mike should get some credit , but how much ? How much of James performance was due to Mike putting him in the best situation and how much was James being one of the most talented players on Earth ? I think we will have a better answer to this next year ... But maybe not ? A lot of external factors effect performance .
And if you do any of those trades you proposed there's 99% chance you don't even reach the WCF with them in the future. If you are going to trade a top 5 player in his prime at least you want a player who has the potential to be as good or better. Towns and Giannis aren't going to get traded during Harden's contract. So that leaves only AD where there is a possibillity since he will be UFA soon and he only made the POs once. The BKN's picks could be generational players or could be roleplayers or could be busts. Too much risk without enough compensation.
i guess it comes down to what kind of fan you are.... are you a Les kind of fan where you need the team to be consistent good and hope you can build around that to do better, or are you a DM/Hinkie kind of fan that, job security aside, recognizes its a win a ring or lose proposition?? If you're the later, like me, you realize its basically a lottery anyway. And the Rockets have had their current ticket punched for 5 years now... and their numbers are not coming up. One could argue, as someone earlier did, that we knew their ticket wasn't getting punched before the year started also, so what's different now? What's different now is that it seemed like they had maximized the chances their numbers would come up way more than anticipated... but ultimately we learned the powerball # at the end has virtually no chance of coming up... much less turning the other 5 numbers into much more likely winners. One could argue, as some have, that other teams also not there yet have been able to change drastically and improve. Which is fair. But almost always that involves massive talent upgrades - Miami, Boston. Unfortunately, the Rockets don't really have the assets to get that done. They don't have the cap space to add 2 actual all-stars, much less one, much less one of them Lebron. They don't have the picks or young players to trade for such. Sometimes, in the case of the Warriors, it involves a new coaching system and scheme followed by a prescient lineup change. That's what the Rockets did THIS year. Can it still work? Sure. I mean there is Dirk. All offense, no defense big with some pretty sad playoff exits. Of course Dirk had already led his team to a Finals appearance, and one which the Mavs were really robbed by the refs if you remember that series, but one can point to Dirk. Alternatively, you could trade in your lottery ticket. Why now? Because doing so now, theoretically, will get you a better lotto ticket than doing so in 3 years. You get little to nothing for superstars who are 30, continue to have playoff problems, and near term free agents. But a 27 year old signed for multiple years is a different story. That gets you more in return. I mean take the below proposal... - Bradley, Nets pick, Celtics stash (eg. Yabusele). Heck, for Harden you might be able to get that 2018 Nets pick, too, especially after the Celtics are finally disappointed in the playoffs. That team is still a playoff squad, albeit in the 7/8 range (depending on who they could add in the offseason), with 3 frankly GREAT lotto picks. I'd take that all day, everyday, and put my odds at a WCF at much higher than 99%. Still less than my odds of a WCF with Harden the next 4 years, but my odds of a championship after that I think are higher.
The worst part of the current Harden's game is not his defense nor the turnovers, but his 3PT%. If his percentages keep tanking like this, he's basically a liability in MDA system. Also, Harden has proven time and time again that he's a playoff choker. I mean what more evidence do you need? And why would we want a serial playoff choker to be the cornerstone of our franchise?
I don't have a problem with trading Harden. The biggest reason is that the Warriors will be there for at least 2 seasons more during Harden's prime years. But I don't like the proposed trades. Harden has MUCH more value than that. Bradley Nets pick and Yabusele ie. Horrible proposal for Harden. Why? Bradley who is very fragile, is about to expire next season and be an UFA who will demand a huge payrise and no way he will want to stay in a rebuilding team. Nets pick? No guarantee that the player isn't a bust or just a roleplayer. Yabusele imo will not amount to much since he's short for his position. There's much more you can get for Harden than that. But apart from this, if you trade him at least trade him for a young player who has at least played a little in the league or even in summerleague or smth and already proven he has all star potential. Not an anonymous lottery pick (which btw we still dont' know which number it will be). If NY wants to trade for Harden with Porzingis and their high lottery pick (so far no.7) + another future unprotected pick in say 2020 then I can consider this seriously. If Philly wants to trade for Harden with Simmons or Embiid + their top 3 pick + 2019 Sac first rounder I am ok with that. Or Jokic + Murray + Denver's pick this year + unprotected 2020 pick. As for the Lakers I don't think any of their players has superstar potential and wont' amount to much.
You know the big difference between Westbrook and Harden. You'll never be able to question Westbrook's heart. He's gonna give you everything he has every minute he's on the court.
I'm in the same boat as you. A lot of folks seem stuck on his individual talent (which is great) and his ability to carry a team 90% of the way there. Last time I checked going 30-52 every year meant the same as going 55-27 and losing in the playoffs every year. Sure, one gets you closer to the ultimate goal of winning the chip but its only worth keeping that ticket if you think your lead horse will eventually get you there. I've lost my confidence that Harden, our lead horse at the moment, can get us to the chip, much less win it. The ONLY way I think it works with Harden going forward is if we bring in another star that can take over late in games and have the respect of Harden to be in his ears about defense and effort. However, that would require Harden to mature and understand he's really not #1 anymore, but 1B. Would he accept someone like that? Can he deal with it emotionally? We've already seen the result of pairing two Betas, and our fate will remain the same if you pair him with a Blake Griffin type player. If you can't swing a deal for that 1A type player then you need to take your chances on young talent that could blossom into a true Franchise guy. I think this offseason is THE offseason for this franchise as currently constructed. If they give it a go with Harden as the sole #1 then I'm afraid we'll be having the same conversation this time next year.
Real talk here Rockets do not stand much of a chance for next 3-4 years while the GSW dynasty is alive and kicking as well as Cavs and to a lesser extent the constantly retooling Spurs. By which time Harden is 32..... I think you test the waters out there. If you can get a collection of high draft picks and young players with upside The goal right now should be to be championship ready when GSW fall off....
Na, dude, look what Ainge was able to do with the Old Pierce and KG. Boston with a #1 seed and potential #1 pick, and so many assets they're going to be great for a long long time, their rebuild was so short, blink and you missed it. Remember Dirk, as another poster mentioned he had a way worse rep as a choker and no defense guy until he won a ring at age 32, I think we need to show some loyalty to our guys. I know in the Morey era players are just assets, but Harden is on a good contract, treat him right and he will stay and we can get another star. Harden will go down as a top 50 player (or higher) when all's said and done. Talents like him are extremely rare. Dwight was one of the biggest FA signings we've had and it was because of Harden, no way Dwight comes here with Parsons and Lin as our two best players. Many posters here are ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Na, you can't be so pessimistic. You never know what will happen. Nobody picked the Mavs upsetting the Cavs in 2011 and look what happened, similar to the Cavs last year down 3-1. Luck is a big factor in a playoff run, always try to compete, because you never know what will happen
So instead of hoping for a second star, we are going to trade our star for draft picks and then hope we get another first star? And then, if we get lucky and one of those draft picks does turn into a star (which a whole lot of really high draft picks don't) we can then go back to hoping for a second star to pair with the first star that we maybe, hopefully, get lucky and get from a draft? Did I get that all right? James Harden is a legitimate star player. Every time I see a thread of people saying that we should trade Harden, I honestly laugh. It's like people don't even remember all of the years that we had role players and were trying, desperately, to get any kind of star player. And we got Harden, not even knowing he would end up being as much of a star player as he has been. He has done more with less than Anthony Davis has, or Chris Paul has, or Paul George has, or Gordon Hayward has, or Demarcus Cousins has, or Kyrie Irving (pre-Lebron) has, or Damian Lillard has, or Russell Westbrook without Durant has (both this season and the season that Durant was injured and the Thunder missed the playoffs). I seriously cannot think of any offer that I would trade Harden for. We had the 3rd best record in the entire NBA for goodness sake, and that was with a Harden and no other player that has ever even made an All Star team. If we trade him, we would almost assuredly get young players and draft picks which would be a massive step backwards. We had a new coach. We had a new system. Harden was playing a new role. We rebuilt parts of the roster almost on the fly after a terrible season. Give us more time to keep building around our new coach, new system and Harden. We are not on the championship tier yet obviously, but we are not so far away either that we should blow anything up.
Getting rid of Harden is crazy. He and the team need to adjust their approach to the game. I'm not fully sold on Harden having full-time PG duties -- I want him to improve as an off-the-ball player and really focus on being a more complete player. He's smart enough and talented enough to make that happen. Remember folks -- this is Year 1 for D'antoni and Harden. Let's see how they bounce back next year.
Obviously you trade James Harden for Avery Bradley and a pick. That'll immensely improve the team, clearly. If Harden averaged 29/11/8 this season, Lonzo Ball would at least be averaging 34/13/10!
Rockets bounce back from being an 8th seed with a horrible culture who were absolutely no fun to watch, to the 3rd best team in the league, loads of fun to watch - a MVP candidate, 6MOY candidate, and COTY candidate.... and Clutchfans posters want to blow it all up for Avery Bradley and a Nets Draft Pick..... lmao. Oh ok
You still don't get it. It's not about regular season numbers; it's about Harden's post-season performance, and more importantly, the fact that he mentally breaks down and quits under pressure.
This is my first post since last nights debacle, and probably my last for a while because people are out on ledges everywhere in the GARM. Harden was pathetic last night. There's no way to defend it, or excuse it. He's gonna hear about this from everybody, and he's gonna have to wear it for at least a full year because nothing he does next regular season will matter. Now for all the crap we give Harden for his strip clubbing, and ole defensing, he has been consistently been coming back a little better than he was previously with maybe one hiccup last season. He had an exceptional year, and the team as a whole was far better than even our optimistic expectations. This year was overall a success despite the grotesque finish, lets see how they respond.
