Egemen I was looking forward to your post. I hope and wish everything is well with you and your family. Please stay safe. I think you said you are in Ankara as well. Secularism and democracy are two different things. And who you ask if it's better? Because for me from one way I see for sure war but from Erdogan I don't know. Which is now better do you think? War and carnage and deaths? Or Erdogan?
Thank you very much for your kind words. Yeah,I live in Ankara and i saw the fighter jets yesterday or at least heard them, which is terryfying.
The coup was so awkward and under supported it's hard to think that this was anything but a rogue operation. It seems the military always underestimates the popular position. They thought they would be greeted as liberator's. My conspiracy sensors tell me was it was instigated to fail. The US military had to be acutely aware of the troop and air power movements not to mention communications traffic. They may have dropped the dime and actually have favor with Erdogan. He has been making some strange friends lately in Israel and Syria. It will be sad when they start executing the regular soldiers who did what they were told by their superiors. They probably weren't free-choice making volunteers.
In December 2013 Gulenists published voice records about corruption scandal which Erdogan and his man's highly involved. They also tried to investigate people who close to Erdogan but they couldn't do that. That was pretty much war declaration from Gulenist's part and since that day Erdogan calls the terrorists.
stuff on Reddit Turkish ‘Black Hawk’ military helicopter lands in Alexandroupoli http://en.protothema.gr/breaking-turkish-military-helicopter-lands-in-alexandroupoli/ A Turkish ‘black hawk’ military helicopter has landed at Alexandroupoli, northern Greece, after requesting permission from Greek authorities. According to reports, the helicopter, which signalled ‘mayday and alert’ for emergency landing, was carrying seven military personnel and a civilian, all considered to be supporters of the military coup that was suppressed in Turkey. According to information, the eight passengers and crew asked for political asylum. Two Greek F-16 jet fighters scrambled to escort the aircraft. The Greek police issued a statement saying the eight people were escorted to the Alexandroupoli police station where they officially asked for political asylum from the Greek authorities. The helicopter is being guarded. There are two majors, one captain and five soldiers. Meanwhile, the Turkish Foreign Minister, Mevlut Cavusoglu has requested their extradition to Turkey from the Greek authorities. The term "Reichstag fire" is used by some writers to denote a calamitous event staged by a political movement, orchestrated in a manner that casts blame on their opponents, thus causing the opponents to be viewed with suspicion by the general public. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire#As_archetype Over 2,000 judges dismissed in Turkey http://en.trend.az/world/turkey/2558814.html A coup attempt was launched in Turkey late on July 15 by a group of Turkish military servicemen. There were reports saying that Istanbul’s Ataturk Airport was seized. Acting Chief of General Staff Umit Dundar said July 16 that Turkish Army has nothing in common with the military coup attempt. Dundar said the army, the government and the Turkish people have been able to prevent the coup attempt together. He also said that Turkish Armed Forces killed 104 servicemen, who intended to carry out the coup. Turkey’s Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said that 161 people were killed during the attempted military coup in the country. Yildirim said 2,836 servicemen involved in the coup attempt have been arrested. I don't understand how the military lost. With access to soldiers, armour, missles and bombs, why didn't they eradicate pro-government supporters. 1,500 soldiers heavily armed could easily take on the police and civilians. First of all, it appears many soldiers were told this was a drill/training. When a coup happens, the soldiers aren't told it's a coup until after the fact. They're basically woken up at 2am, told "there's a situation, the fate of Turkey lies in your hands, it's life or death, you must guard this bridge with your life, do not let anyone through". Only high ranking members of the coup plotters actually know what's going on until it ends. Social media has somewhat changed this however as information is spread faster. Keep in mind as well that it doesn't make much sense to make fun of Turkey's army for "being punked and derouted by their own civilians", and this for two reasons: Only a small part of the military was actually in the the "pro" camp of the coup (some reports are saying that a part of the Senior Leadership was about to be purged by Ergodan's government, and they wanted to preempt that). Even if the military is fully on board, even if the rank and file soldiers are fully in the know and on board (which isn't often the case as I've stated above), once **** gets real and you get ordered to shoot your civilian neighbours and friends, it becomes a very different story than shooting an enemy foreign combatant. Many soldiers might be arguably completely on board with "**** Erdogan and his dictatorship, we're taking over", but then feel conflicted when having to mow down civilians to achieve that goal, which leads to either surrender, desertion, or a hit to morale at the very least.
That sounds horrible. Ankara had a complete media blackout and while we had immediate news about Istanbul Izmir Prusa etc only the most basics details about the horrors there were transmitted. I hope now the situation is safe at least. The turkish people have never before opposed a military coup. And it has happened often in the past. Almost once a decade. Erdogan knew about it. The greek military even knew that there was something wrong going on from noon becaue there was movement of big armies heading to Ankara. If they knew Erdogan knew for sure. They probably will not execute the simple soldiers. Turkish army is not a professional army completely but also has conspircted (spelling ?) citizens which makes is more difficult.
The recordings were absolutely damning. Erdogan and his clan are corrupt, fanatical mobsters. Erdogan is a horrible person. There are similarities to Hitler in his strategy and character.
Egeman, also sending you best wishes for the days ahead. I think you are right that, no matter how confident some people are with their opinions, we will never know exactly what happened.
Who is responsible? The US will follow US law first. We don't just go pick up people and hand them over to other governments... there will be lawyers.
Yes, the recordings pretty much changed everything about politics in Turkey. Those were wild couple of days. Thank you for your kind words.
Really hope this piece of sh** dies or gets exiled in a few years, unbelievable what kind of things he's demanding from countries like USA and Germany while also supporting ISIS, slaughtering Kurdish people and violating human rights in the worst ways.
Turkey's growth has nothing to do with Erogen (unemployment has increased under him). Totalitarian oppressive regimes do not lead to economic success. Countries that succeed do so by opening up, not the other way around. As for our national debt - clearly we're doing something right if despite that debt we have the world's largest economy - in the history of Earth.
Seems like a false flag operation to me - how could they attempt a coup without arresting anyone???? What coup works that way? And with such a pathetic effort? Regardless Erogden is already consolidating power with 2000 judges being dismissed without any kind of review or process. It's clear he is attacking the judiciary as a stepping stone to taking complete control. Democracy is about to die in Turkey, and the west is powerless to do anything about it. And folks like Exiled because he is anti-Israeli - forget that this is horrible for the people of Turkey and we might be witnessing the birth of another Syria except this time it's not even secular.
Reading headlines that Erdogan has ordered the detainment of thousands of judges and the arrest thousands of military personnel.
The not-The-Onion headline of the day: [rQUOTEr]Egypt blocks U.N. call to respect 'democratically elected' government in Turkey The United Nations Security Council failed on Saturday to condemn the violence and unrest in Turkey after Egypt objected to a statement that called on all parties to "respect the democratically elected government of Turkey," diplomats said. The U.S.-drafted statement, seen by Reuters, also expressed grave concern over the situation in Turkey, urged the parties to show restraint, avoid any violence or bloodshed, and called for an urgent end to the crisis and return to rule of law. Statements by the 15-member Security council have to be agreed by consensus. "We proposed different language that respects democratic and constitutional principles but the Americans refused to engage," Egypt's U.N. Ambassador Amr Aboulatta told Reuters. Diplomats said Egypt asked for a call for all parties to "respect the democratically elected government of Turkey" to be removed from the draft statement, saying the council is "in no position to qualify, or label that government - or any other government for that matter - as democratically elected or not." ...[/rQUOTEr]
I am starting to believe in the theory that this "coup" was staged by Erdogan and his cronies. - too amateurish to even be taken seriously at all - all they did was block two bridges and fire some shots at the parliament, and occupy the relatively unimportant TRT state television, while the 6 private tv stations kept broadcasting - Erdogan calmly gives an interview via Facetime - Erdogan arrives on his plane, calmly does some circles over Istanbul - Meanwhile the people who supposedly are doing a coup, rather than taking down the President's plane in Istanbul, fire a few shots in Ankara - After easily quashing the coup, Erdogan a day later arrests over 2,500 people from the military and arrests/dismisses over 2,000 judges. These lists must have existed before. The whole thing smells fishy.
