And like I said Warriors are the best team in that group, if Cavs beat them in a 7 game series why would they suddenly fall to an inferior team like OKC, Spurs, Clips etc? This isn't like the NFL or NCAA where luck and seeding plays a major role, if you have a 7 game series every round then the best team will almost always win. The Cavs aren't exactly a pushover team, they also compiled a good win-loss record so why are you acting like they're gonna get owned by teams GSW already destroyed? If Lebron was in the West then the WCF would have been the finals and the actual finals would have been a cakewalk against the Raptors or whatever. End of story.
2 or 3. Doing the impossible and coming back from 3-1 down is an incredible feat, especially against this Warriors team that was dubbed as one of the greatest teams ever.
Ok so if Lebron gets injured next year, where would that Cavs team be in the East? Think about that. Do you knwo what their record without Lebron is last year? There is a REASON why Lebron led them in points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks for the playoffs. He does EVERYTHING. Jordan won a Finals v. the Sonics on 27 points, 4 boards, 4 dimes on 41% shooting. Lebron can't never average those on his teams and win a round or 2.
This argument will go on forever. People will always hold Jordan at a higher standard. He created a brand that will live on forever and changed the game. Lebron has always been the better all around player. No one in history has ever done what he has. I mean the guy just led the entire finals for both teams in points rebounds blocks steals and assists.... WOW EVERY SINGLE STAT! Any team Lebron goes on pretty much is guaranteed a finals appearance. No one has ever had such an significant impact on any team like he has. His Cleveland team loses him and they went from First to Worst... Miami with 2 supposed super stars misses the playoffs when he leaves... He took the Cleveland team which just got the number one pick the finals and now they win the whole thing.. Jordan leaves the bulls and they make the ECF finals. The 6/6 argument is ridiculous. Because Jordan got bounced in first and second round all the time. Lebron gets all the way to finals before he is bounced. His teams had no business even being in the finals in the first place.
This argument is so flawed it borders on trolling. Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Kukoč, Harper, Kerr, top coach, top offensive system, and they had much more time to gel. Lebron had much worse supporting cast and had to face one of the greatest teams of all time with coaching change in middle of the season. When Jordan came back, he couldn't get past Orlando with a much better supporting cast. When Love and the Irving went down last year, LeBron willed his team of nobodies to finals and took 2 games by himself. By your logic LeBron should absolutely be in front of Jordan, not behind him.
lol...First of all...Rodman wasn't there when they lost to Orlando. Jordan only came back for 17 games after having been retired 2 seasons. Horace Grant was on the opposing team. You seriously think LeBron without Love and Irving could beat Shaq, Penny, Grant + tons of good role players? Besides, is this still a thing? MJ got a summer to get in shape, and they got a 34 year old Rodman(who btw only played 64 games) and they won 72 and swept that same Magic team. You mention the Bulls supporting cast like they are amazing individual players or something. Harper was a shell of the young player he was headed toward. In a lot of ways, like Shaun Livingston. Kukoc was a career bench player who averaged 13,4 and 4 during the 3 peat. Kerr was simply a 3 point specialist who did nothing else. Coach and system is a big deal. LeBron doesn't wan't a coach with a system. The system has to be LeBron so he can get his stats. LeBron's stats would go way down playing in the triangle offense. The Bulls had more time to gel together? Yeah, how is that not on LeBron for leaving the Cavs to chase rings in the first place? And don't act like LeBron doesn't basically have full control of what the Cavs do in terms of hiring and firing and signing players. DWade was the best player in the series against the Mavs with LeBron chocking. DWade is a top 4, arguably top 3 SG of all time behind MJ, Kobe and Drexler (Jerry West was a PG). DWade single handily won a championship with arguably the greatest individual performance in NBA history. He carried a bunch of has beens who were way beyond their prime. Chris Bosh is an elite PF for today's era. He averaged 22 and 10 for a 5 year stretch. Heat had great defensive role players. Kyrie Irving. #1 draft pick for a reason. Supposed to be one of the best scorers and top 2 handles in the league. 21 and 6 pre LeBron. Kevin Love. Averaged 15 rebounds one season. Averaged 26, 12.5 and 4.4apg. Those are Charles Barkley type of numbers. How many players throughout history play on **** teams but never put up Kevin Love numbers? Majority. Cavs have tons of good role players. Tristan Thompson is very long and the former #4 overall pick. He's one of the best offensive rebounders in the league. Tied for #2 this season and he only played 27mpg. JR Smith can light anyone up at any moment. Very athletic. Former 6th man of the year. Shumpert is an athletic defensive specialist who can't do much else. Pretty much every team has one of these guys. Thunder nearly beat the Warriors with their own Roberson starting. It's amazing how all of these guys suddenly turn to trash when they play with LeBron James. It's now trolling if you think LeBron hasn't played with trash his whole career...amazing. This is Kobe worshiper level where every teammate Kobe ever had was also garbage according to them. He had 1 year in 08 that can be considered an awful supporting cast, and that team beat a 41 win Wizards in the first round, a 41 win Nets in the 2nd round and the Pistons without 4X DPOTY Ben Wallace and HOF coach Larry Brown. No way MJ could carry these "scrubs" LeBron has had his whole career past such a grueling conference.
LeBron is: Roughly 3,200 points away from 30,000 career points Roughly 5,400 points away from passing Michael Jordan Roughly 7,000 points away from passing Kobe Bryant Roughly 1,000 assists away from entering Top 10 all-time in assists (he's averaging about 500 a season) Roughly 350 steals away from entering Top 10 all-time in steals (he's averaging about a 100 a season) Assuming he plays another 5 years, I think it's very possible that LeBron James can end up: 3rd all-time in Scoring 7th all-time in Assists 10th all-time in Steals If LeBron manages to get another ring and another MVP trophy I can see a very realistic argument for GOAT status. If either or, he would be a lock for 2nd all time IMO.
??? The NBA schedule is fairly balanced. They played every single team in the west at least twice last year. If your contention is that they would have a worse record, there is just no evidence since they actually won more by percentage against the West.
I replied to the logic of guy who couldn't put LeBron on top because he couldn't win with superstars. I too think MJ is better than LeBron, but that logic is silly. Kukoč won 6th man award, Harper had very good averages before he joined Bulls (kinda like Love), Kerr was a sharpshooter every team would like to have, Rodman is considered one of best defensive PFs...etc. With Orlando (MJ) and last year's matchup against GSW comparison I wanted to show that when both were at disadvantage (MJ wasn't in form against Orlando, while LeBron was without Love and Irving against GSW), Cleveland still held their own against GSW. I don't know why some people on this board say nonsense in order to fit their narrative, like LeBron can't win without other superstars. Well Kyre and Love most certainly aren't superstars or lock for HOFers lik Pippen or Rodman were, and LeBron beat a historic team regardless. The way he beat them against all odds, the way he put his team on his back is a bit similar to what Dirk did against him, when he was in Miami. Both had good, but not exceptional supporting cast and won against odds.
With three legit 7 footers to foul Shaq, Pippen, Harper, Kukoc and dead-eye shooters like Armstrong and Kerr? Yeah, I think they could. Not having a PF isn't such a big deal when LeBron can play PF for you. Kinda shows why LeBron has had more success than Jordan without stellar teams because he's a big that can play small. Who on this roster can check LeBron? http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/1995.html Jordan played great in the 95 postseason. They lost because he didn't have anyone to control the paint and wings need that to win. The Bulls supporting cast was better than what LeBron had in Miami or Cleveland. You also act like Wade and Bosh were playing at a great level every year LeBron was there. Wade was declining. Considering that we have never seen MJ win a playoff series without an all-time great alongside him, I agree.
To be fair, prior to joining with Lebron, Wade/Bosh and Kyrie/Love are all widely considered max level multi-year allstars. IMO MJ only has Pippen at that level. GSW overachieved with home grown non top5 picks as their core. 80% of CLE starting lineup are top5 picks.
Does anyone think Kevin Love looks like a superstar in Cleveland? He took the Warriors to 6 games by himself. I think they would be better off trading Love and improving the role players around LBJ & Kyrie.
Top 20 also includes top 15, top 10, top 5, and GOAT. So you should have made your polls top 16-20, top 11-15, top 6-10, top 2-5, and GOAT.
Max level multi-year allstar is not the same as Superstar. Pippen was the best SF at that time without any question, and is probably still considered Top5 SF all time. Rodman was also better than Kyre or Love if we consider competition at their position. Kyre and Love are currently not even in Top 3 at their current position RIGHT NOW. Curry, Westbrook and Paul are all better than Kyre, while at the very least Davis, Aldridge and Griffin are in front of Love. Pippen led his team in all major statistical categories when Jordan was playing baseball. LeBron could only dream of having such a teammate. The closest was Wade, but he was well past his prime because of knee injuries.
The Narrative last week was Lebron has no chance. Now that he has won the narrative is well his team is great and full of talent.
Either you haven't read much of this thread or you just want to stir some conversation. His team has good players, but I would argue only Kyre is on Draymond Green's or Klay's level even if he doesn't play good defense, since he impacts the game so much with his offense. Outside of Jordan and maybe prime Hakeem, there probably isn't any other player capable of taking a collection of Cleveland's current players and win 3 straight games against one of the best teams ever.
