1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

JVG on the Lowe Post

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DonKnock, May 16, 2016.

  1. SirIvyLeague

    SirIvyLeague Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,878
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    KJ at point? Harrell starting PF? No, not happening.

    If we got both Batum & Horford, that's a successful off-season.

    Getting Lou Williams does not make the offense less Harden dependent, you fail to realize Harden kind of sucks the life out of the offense when he doesn't have the ball. For all we b**** about Howard's weak picks, lack of hard rolls, and openness to do anything to get himself open you got to take a look at James and see what he does off ball. Just hang around 5ft behind the 3pt line waiting for the ball to come to him.

    What we really need is two Beverely's at PG. Two good defensive, 20-25mpg PGs, that can hit 35-40% from deep. If we get Batum, trade something to get Brewer out of there. Ariza/Batum/Harden is a fine swingman combo. Upfront I'd go Horford and Capela with DMo backing them up & finishing games, spot minutes goes to Harrell and a stretch 4(find one).

    We need to sell Harden on an offense geared around him(i.e. offense that lets him do his thing in his post--a real strong spot), not too fast of a pace(dude never gets back), and defensively keeps him around the bucket. The only thing he does okay on defensive-wise, is if you post him up he's chunky enough to hold his ground. Having a p&r defender like Capela and Horford makes things easier. Batum on the other's best player, Bev on the PG.

    Offense is essentially a strong-side post up, every time down. Harden, Horford, Dmo, Batum(yes, Batum, the weaker defender usually would guard him and he can take on those guys in the post). Weak side wise, have our shooters primed. We shot a **** ton of contested 3s last year(don't give a **** about the stat that disproves or proves this because "contested" is a gray area of metric analysis). Weak side shooters will be open, we'll be fine with Batum, Dmo, Harden, Ariza, Bev, backup PG, and even horford occasionally.
     
  2. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    12,880
    Probably not Harrell at starting PF. As for KJ, he would guard PGs, not play as a PG because that's Harden role.

    No doubt, but I don't think that will automatically make us a contender.

    We need a secondary scorer and ball handler, why not grab one that fits that role who has playoff experience, 6th man experience, and is on a good contract?

    We need someone to adequately run the offense when Harden is off the floor and someone who can adequately coexst with Harden. Harden has shown he can defer to DMo and Beasley (players who are talented enough to score) just not someone like Lawson he simply has regressed in all aspects of the game.

    KJ could possibly fill that role, although it would be optimistic to think he would be a +35% from 3pt by the end of next season. Coaching from a JVG or Vogel type would do wonders for a player like KJ who has the size, strength, and athleticism to guard the 1-3 spots but doesn't have it down mentally yet.

    I love Harrell but I think if we get Horford, our frontcourt becomes (in no particular order) Beasley, DMo, Capela, and Horford.

    Package Brewer and Harrell to get a pick as Beasley would be a better gamble. Harrell is very intriguing but the guy is a terribly hot headed and Beasley is a gunner who can probably extend his range to the 3 point line next season as a stretch 4.

    Agreed.

    A versatile big and wing paired with Harden is the best way forward, hopefully we can make it happen.
     
  3. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    12,880
    My ideal version of Harden, is a Harden that averages 21 pts and 11 dimes. Having versatile players like Horford and Batum supported by a scorers like Lou Williams and Beasley would help with that transition to my ideal Harden.
     
  4. PeterKingX

    PeterKingX Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    17,066
    Likes Received:
    10,447
    LOL. This is stupid thinking.

    Harden is good at scoring.

    Why do you want him to give up what he is good at???

    Plus, Durant will easily make his dimes over 10!!!

    Brewer or Ariza???? ****ing no!!!!
     
  5. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    16,465
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    Harden "has" been good at defense at times. I would gladly see him average only 21 a game if it meant that Houston was a better all around team.

    Would you prefer James Harden averaging 28 ppg / 7 apg / 5 turn overs per game and plays no defense with a team that just kind of stands around and watches him in the last 2 minutes?

    Or would you prefer a James Harden that averages 21 to 24 ppg / 11 apg / 3 turnovers per game while playing good defense on team that has multiple players contributing points in the last few minutes on a team that is a serious contender?
     
  6. jimmyv281

    jimmyv281 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,884
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Would Van Gundy want Howard to opt in?
     
  7. infinittiii

    infinittiii Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    8
    How does the 2nd scenario have 4 more assist but 2 less TOs? How does that math work exactly. Just because he average less points and plays defense he's gonna be able to increase his assist/to ratio?

    Also, do you really see Harden as a selfless player at this point in his career, willing to give up 7 ppg? lol
     
  8. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    25,522
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Which is why I'm optimistic of a second stint..plus, he's coming in fresh, in general.
     
  9. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,728
    Likes Received:
    29,114
    If he is the coach I will of course root for him
    but he is not my first choice

    Rocket River
     
  10. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    1,082
    I don't know how anyone could listen to this podcast and NOT think JVG is the man for the job.

    BBIQ off the charts, tons of experience, commands respect, willing to work with assistant coaches to buttress his weaknesses (offense), stats friendly, rapport with Morey...

    It's happening, folks
     
    #30 shastarocket, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  11. Tenchi

    Tenchi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    486
    It needs to happen. That will be the only good thing coming out of this miserable season.
     
  12. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    30,151
    Likes Received:
    17,084
    Van Gundy wants Howard to opt in.
     
  13. jimmyv281

    jimmyv281 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,884
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    You know I was thinking his defense always had in anchor in the middle, even his work as in assistant.
     
  14. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,577
    Likes Received:
    35,648
    One takeaway that was interesting from that podcast is how sometimes as a coach you can't stay "rigid" to rotation changes. He was talking about KD/Westbrook and when they go in/come out of the game. JVG said, if KD is hot, have to keep riding him.

    The reason I bring this up, is I recall in JVG's initial stint in Houston, he was VERY rigid with lineups. And this was really frustrating. So, again, it appears over time JVG has adapted his approach. I am sure he has adapted in other ways too.
     
  15. edc

    edc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    14
    Mr. Van Gundy does not change. When he came to the Rockets, despite his promises and glad-handing, he did EXACTLY what he did on the Knicks. The Finals appearance in a strike-shortened season was a fluke. What was consistent about his era (in either place) was whining, playoff losses (sometimes blowouts) and unwatchable "deflate the basketball" offense. Now he wants MORE power?
     
  16. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3,637
    Likes Received:
    392
    I suggested Batum earlier in the season for trade talks but no one cared.

    I'm afraid he's too expensive now. He's worth Max, but no longer a bargain at his salary now.
     
  17. varughese.arun

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    365
    BEASLEY IS OUR #2 OPTION.
    THE BEASLEY, (aka Micheal Jordan), WILL TAKE US TO THE PROMISE LAND.
     
  18. basketballholic

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    17,516
    Likes Received:
    4,170
    You mean opt in or re-sign, don't you? ;)
     
  19. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    56,814
    Likes Received:
    39,127
    Crash was clearly (clear to me, anyway) responding to a post by dmoneybangbang a couple of posts before his about dmoney's "ideal Harden," who he describes as scoring 21 a game, with 11 dimes. He (crash) is postulating about Harden playing with other cats who can actually make shots, taking part of the scoring burden from James, while giving him more assists. How many times did we see Rocket players wide open from behind the arc because of Harden then proceed to clank their shots? I lost count early on. Reduce his minutes, improve the supporting cast, and hire a coach who's been thinking about how to improve the Rocks. A guy with an system that makes sense, who provides structure, has deep experience, who won't put up with a lack of effort from anyone, and who knows defense backwards and forward. I can dream.

    One of the "drivers" behind the high turnovers from Harden, and I'm certainly not the first to mention it, is that he led the league in minutes played, a full minute ahead of Kyle Lowry, who was second. That has to have a negative impact on his game, and it didn't help that he managed not to put in the amount of off-season work that he typically does, so he spent a chunk of the early season playing himself into NBA shape, in my humble opinion.
     
  20. yaopao

    yaopao Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    68
    Because it involves others in the game. If others are involved in the game, they will hustle more and play better defense.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now