Bash Him All You Want, But Do You Have A Better Answer To Moore's 'Columbine' Query?

Listening to people criticize Moore is so funny, really.

They don't know anything about the man, or his work, they just flame away with canned responses that they use for almost all of their ideological adversaries.

 

I saw the movie, and he has SOME good points. BUT calling that movie a documentary is incorrect, in my opinion.

A political satire peice would be closer, I think. Not that there is anything wrong with political satire...it has been an important media for expressing viewpoints for a long time.

It is when you take political satire and try to pass it off as fact that bothers me. Calling that movie a documentary is making it look like fact...it might be fact "based" in some cases, but the whole movie is basically one man's opinion, presented in a humorous manner, with SOME base in fact.

That would be a political satire.

The main problem I have with Moore isn't so much his point of view. Its not even that I disgree with him on most issues. The problem I have with the man is that he (and many others) try to pass of his opinions as pure fact. He's just the anti-Limbaugh. The only people that truly believe him are the ones that already share his opinions...just like Limbaugh (except he's funnier).

Anyways...that's just a few rambling thoughts. He's a funny man and has an eye for his view of politics. I just don't like how he tries to pass of his opinion as fact all the time...and that his movie was a well received political satire...not a documentary.

 

Its the mentality and mind set of Americans. The overall culture leans towards primative ways of resolvng problems.For example when we see a country in need of help, how many times have you heard of us going in there and taking care of a Housing Problems or the lack of Electrical power or building Teaching Hospitals or building Houses with all the modern conveniences. These actions would indicate love for our fellow human beings. Instead we try to exploit cheap Labor or be a subversive force because we dont like their politics, or we try to physically change the picture that we dont agree with by the use of our War Machine. When will we get it into our heads that brothers and sisters in other societies are different and that its our place to respect them not to destroy them.When we reach the point of loving our brothers and sisters as we love ourselves, then we will have reached a new mentality and the deep reasons for murder will be not be our focal point.

 

I rented the DVD this past weekend and watched it a couple of times. I found it pretty compelling factually but I found some of Moore's analysis wanting.

MacBeth, as a Canadian, do you lock your doors?

 

I live in Vermont, and don't even know where my house keys are. Few people here locks their doors regularly (or even close their windows), unless they're gonna be outta town a while.

 

The point that he made in Canada about welfare (I think that's the word I'm looking for, could be wrong) is the only concept that I agreed with in the film. Out of the world's leading countries, America easily providesthe least amount of support to its people. Canada and many of the industrialized nations provide all of their citizens with medical care and other such benefits that we here in America don't see. There is a pretty much proven theory that the more money and services you provide for your citizens, the less crime you will have.

Before TJ asks, no I have no sources to back any of this; wish I did though.

 

Good points. Yeah, one can easily extrapolate those conclusions about unemployment=poverty, but Moore could have made that connection better.

 

I saw the movie last night and did not come to the conclusion that Moore advocates getting rid of guns altogether (how could he? He is an NRA member for crying out loud!). I felt that he was supporting making it more difficult for people to get guns and ammunition and for people who own those guns to keep them locked up and unloaded.

I do agree with the comments made about America just being a more violent society than most others. We do have a culture of fear fostered by TV news ("if it bleeds, it leads") and supported by the shoot-em-up style of policing that has taken over in the past 30 years or so. Police have gone from being "peace officers" to being paramilitaries who are literally at war with the communities they are supposed to be policing.

BTW, much of the violence that people claim is "drug related" or "gang related" is caused directly by prohibition and could easily be cured. (I just had to throw that one in there )

 

I saw the movie the other day. It made that news reporter look like an ass. He was talking about his hair one moment, and then pretending to be sad about that little girl's death the next.

 

No, that's an extremely relevant point. A very high percentage of inmates are there on drug-related charges. Repeal prohibition, and violent crime rates fall through the floor.

While we're on the subject, can someone honestly explain why guns are legal and drugs aren't? In terms of crime, they're closely related -- but only the plants are outlawed.

 

I can answer it, but if we want to expound, we should probably start a new thread.

Drugs are illegal because people in many industries including the prison industry, logging, pharmaceuticals, and petroleum all have an interest in seeing that drugs (and hemp) remain criminalized. They spend their lobbying money in the hope that Americans will remain ignorant to the facts and will continue to sentence their children to drug use and addiction.

 

note to self:

go to Vermont if I ever decide to enter a life of crime

 

I thought there were some interesting facts presented. Then there were other things that seemed to go nowhere, namely the Dick Clark thing and the Lockheed plant.

I don't know if his answer was exactly right, but I can't really offer a better one. I would guess it's a combination of different things with fear being one of the main factors. I don't really think there is an answer.

I thought this was an interesting read:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

 

LOL

Why do you think I moved here?

 

I thought you were already a lawyer?

rimshot.

(too easy...didn't mean to be the first to break Jeff's rules of conduct).