How do you feel about Harden as the current franchise player and the Rockets building around him?

Let me clarify for you...

I'd rather have the championship Pistons TEAM rather than Iverson's 76ers....

Hey if Harden is willing to play off ball, play consistent d and keep his head in the game and outta the clubs - cool! But when criticism is answered with remarks such as "those that matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter"... I don't have high hopes... people keep saying he'll mature - this is his 7th season in the league... if he hasn't learned offseason conditioning yet, I don't know what to tell you...
I hope I'm wrong. I hope Harden gets his head straight and leads us to many championships - but I ain't holding my breath....

 

The rockets will never win a championship with harden leading! I have never disliked a rockets player more

 

Great post Codman! I pretty much agree with all of it. James has his warts but the Rockets are VERY lucky to have him.

Let's solve that PF problem and shooting problem - Durant & Horford.

 

This is my line of thinking currently. He just comes across as an entitled diva incapable of leading a team anywhere. He really changed and regressed in mentality and leadership after last year. He didn't handle the success of last year well at all. I'm hoping he can grow from this year's set back but he just doesn't have the mental make up of a championship type leader it appears. Harden's best served being a second or third wheel like he was in OKC.

 

100% spot on.

 

While I will agree Dwight doesn't lead the league in the 2nd option category, its our 3rd, 4th, 5th.... options that hurt us the most.

 

I don't hate Harden, just not a fan of his style of playing.

He dominates the ball and takes the most shots, that means other good players will not want to come over to play with him, which means the Rockets won't be able to fill a talent team.

The Rockets tried to take the ball away from him with the Lawson experiment, but it failed miserably. I'm not sure where exactly the problem is, but a ball dominating SG is not good to build a team around. Even MJ didn't dominate the ball as much as Harden, and the Bulls had Paxon, Amstrong, Kerr, etc as the PG.

 

This is what the fan base really needs to be worried about. He's a Kobe type but Harden is no where near the player Kobe was in his prime nor does he have the same fire and desire like Kobe had. I'm just not feeling optimistic. This year has exposed a lot about Harden that is not promising.

 

Bryant didn't dominate the ball as much under Jackson, neither did MJ. They always had a PG to bring the ball up, then got into their sets. Bryant & MJ would end up get most of the touches, but those teams always moved the ball, so every player knew they were part of the action, and always ready when called for.

The Rockets is different, it's Harden ISO, everyone standing around to watch. You can say it's the coach/system, but I don't think the coaches want it to be this way.

 

I meant he is a Kobe type in that he tends to be aloof, getting coaches fired, rumors of wanting teammates traded, etc. Similar ball dominant players as well but I agree that Kobe most of his career played in a more organized system unlike Harden. The Rox coaches may not want it to be this way but McHale and now his protege JB are not equipped to implement a better way of organizing the offense or the team in general.

 

Until the Rockets get a coach or player, that can show Harden how to be a leader, and making the kind of scarifices and hard work that it takes to win in this league, I don't even see us getting back to the WCF

 

Summary of the above key points :

- Harden is good.
- We can build a championship team around him.
- But :

1. he will need another scorer,
2. a leader,
3. 1-2 more superstars which will be better than him like Durant,
4. a much better coach with great resume,
5. great pieces around him which can score on their own and also able to create space for Harden to drive,
6. a great ball handler (probably in top 10 PG and MUST be better than Lawson),
7. and none of the above mentioned players should be demanding the ball more than Harden,
8. and also fork Morey's shlt ass system, we need an improved system designed for Harden.
9. not to mention a very strong bench and can allow him to have more rest.
10. Oh did I forget to say that DEFENSE?! Yes, the forking defense, we must always able to defend the other teams 5 players with our own 4 players on the floor.

Then, we shall have a championship team in H town.

I think we can build a championship team around Toney Douglas also with above conditions.

 

fire muray if he can't get this done

 

I'm confused. Are you mocking the notion Rockets need another star, or maybe two, including another quality scorer, better fitting role players, and a better coach? Like...is it really controversial to say the Rockets need the same things that other contending teams have in order to contend?

I mean...I get that's it trendy to clown James Harden all the time, and he has some work to do in his areas of weakness, no doubt, but you're reaching on this one, my friend.

 

Some of you losers that call yourselves Rockets fans really need a good kick in the balls...

 

HOF detected

 

You are absolutely correct. I have only been a fan of the Rockets since BEFORE Harden was even drafted. :grin:

 

7th season and this is the 1st offseason where his conditioning has been questioned. Doesn't sound like a career long problem to me

The thing is, per minute, Curry, Cousins, Durant, Westbrook, Lillard, James, Wade, McCollum and Kobe shoot MORE than Harden. And guys like Davis, IT, George, Jackson and Melo shoot almost exactly as much.

Also Harden is I believe around 15th in time of possession.

You are misrepresenting him as this take all the shots ball dominant guy the likes the league hasn't seen when it's just not true.

 

I consider Lillard & Westbrook are the only two on your list with the similar problem. Those two are PGs with scoring-first mentality, so you can live with that to a certain degree. But none of the other guys you mentioned hold the ball close to what Harden does, which is rightly so since they are not the PG, who's job is to manage the game.

Think about it this way, will any good PG want to come over to play along side with Harden? What can they do when Harden has the ball most of the time? The Lawson experiment sent a clear message to any good players who considers to come over.

 

Living in the past expecting players to stick to these old timey positional roles.

The last 20 some years there have hardly been any teams with your prototypical ball dominant, modest scoring, distributing point guard to win the title.

My argument would be you don't need a prototypical game managing point guard with Harden. Plenty of championship teams have done just fine without one. You need another playmaker but it doesn't have to be a point guard or even if it is a point guard it doesn't have to be someone who completely takes control of the ball. Someone to lighten the load, not someone to transfer the entire load over to.

The Lawson experiment sent a clear message alright. That Lawson freaking sucks right now and there is no one to blame but himself.

And you are still misrepresenting how much Harden dominates the ball and shoots. Durant and Westbrook, on the same team, shoot MORE per minute than Harden. Hell Westbrook controls the ball nearly 2 whole minutes more per game than Harden does and he and Durant seem to be doing just fine.

Curry and Thompson, on the same team, Curry shoots more and Thompson shoots just as much per minute as Harden. There isn't a struggle for these guys to find time to each have the ball and shoot it.

There is more than enough possession time in the game and shots to be taken by another superstar level player next to Harden.