Zach Lowe: “The Rockets Org Knows Who Did/Didn’t Vote Harden For MVP Last Year”

That's a load of revisionist bull that would make espn proud.

James came off his own historic year and lead the league in assists.

Was Russell's mvp tarnished for not advancing deeper than Harden into the playoffs?

Do people talk about Steve Nash's MVPs as being tarnished? If anything, it's because he happened to win two (over Shaqs 1) that people didn't call it a fluke.

Oh but Nash is a great, deceptively athletic guy and stand up player...on top of the unbelievable things he does with the ball and his team!

Now the goalposts have flipped and Harden is being penalized for "MDA's system". What kind of solace is that?

That's the biggest part of the outage. The sheer and arbitrary ridiculousness to an award with historic standing.

I want a ship foremost too, but that doesn't stop me being upset at James getting robbed for his seasonal accomplishments.

Nobody is giving him a pass for his playoff failures, but it feels justifiably right standing up for him here. He's picked up and committed to Houston from the day he landed and the city should have his back for things outside his control.

 

Well, I see on the list that Zach Lowe voted for Kawhi last season...

At least he didn't vote like Michelle Beadle.

 

There was no expectation that Russell would advance past the first round, even with his MVP. In the game that Russell's team was eliminated, was his team favored? If Harden played competitively throughout the second round and lost against the Spurs when they were at full strength, that would be a different matter.

You are minimizing the manner in which Harden lost. Whether you hold that against him or not is immaterial -- it is clear that the voting media largely does. I believe there would be a ton of Harden voters second guessing their choice and thinking twice about voting for him again this year. Right now, Harden gets the "In hindsight, Harden maybe should have won it last year, so let's make sure not to it screw him over this year" voting boost. Though at the same time, for some voters, all the complaining from the Rockets org and fanbase about Harden not winning an MVP could end up being so aggravating as to work against him. So there's that.

The goalposts haven't changed. The information has.

Nash joined the Suns after D'antoni. The previous year they won 29 games, and D'antoni had a 21-40 record that season. In Nash's first year they won 62 games. D'antoni was not regarded as an exceptional coach at that time. Nash was an all-star. He was the guy who perennially led the most efficient offenses in the league with Dallas (the preceding 3 years). What people saw was a gigantic improvement with the insertion of Nash into the lineup in replacement of Marbury. So he got the credit.

With Harden+MDA, MDA joins a Harden-led team. and the team improves from 41 wins to 55 wins. We have more information on D'antoni and his history with Nash. So the narrative shifts to him getting more of the credit.

And the "penalty" you speak of really isn't a penalty at all. Harden almost certainly received more MVP consideration last year, playing as a PG in MDA's offense, then he would have with another coach doing the status quo. You can't talking about him being penalized for MDA's system without also accounting for how his stats were impacted by his new role within MDA's system.

 

And I'll assume you think that's true of every organization, not just the Rockets.

I just disagree -- I don't think that organizations should be campaigning on their players behalf for individual award recognition. Commenting on it here and there when asked about it is one thing. Anything beyond that I am not in favor of. Then it turns into a whole PR thing where the organization needs to devote time and resources not just to winning but to campaigning for individual awards. I have a big problem with that -- there's enough trashy arguments on the internet and in the media from biased sources as it is. I don't want teams feeling compelled to join in on that because we've decided that's now their responsibility.

I think the prestige is lessened if it the MVP vote is influenced by one team campaigning harder for it than others.

 

I view true MVP’s as players that not only won the award but won a Championship as well within 2 years from the time they won the award.

The list gets a whole lot shorter, prestigious and meaningful. The way it should be.

This means players like David Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Nash, Dirk, KG, AI, Durant, more than likely Westbrick and especially D Rose don’t belong. Sorry... but not sorry. I love Barkley but he’s not on Tim Duncan’s level and neither is Malone. Just like Robinson isn’t on Olajuwon’s or Shaq’s level and AI isn’t on Kobe’s level. Going by my logic this leaves a very small and select group of guys...

Moses Malone, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Olajuwon, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, Curry.
I’m missing some OG’s but I can’t remember and never saw them play.

This is part of the reason why I don’t care too much about MVP voting and I can be at peace with Harden losing it to Curry the year he won his ring and last years award seemed like another empty award whether it went to Harden or Westbrook since neither guy was close to winning a ring. Now that we’re legit contenders it changes things a bit but Harden should pretty much be a lock this year for MVP and he has his best chance to win a ring and put himself in that elite group.

 

Harden finished second in MVP before mda. So...

 

Then allow me to clear up your confusion:

I care about what the MVP means and how the media/fans negotiate the various criteria that is used. Because it is interesting. I've been actively engaged in discussion on that topic for years on this forum. Well before your join date.

I also care about misinformation and what I consider bad arguments, in general. Whether its from others or (if I'm convinced of it) from me.

What I don't care about so much is if multiple players have a case, and the player I personally think has the best case doesn't win. Because as much as I'm interested in the rationale people use for selecting one player over another as MVP, I also recognize that there are no fixed rules for this stuff so there's no point in me getting emotionally invested in one player in particular winning it.

 

Absolutely, but campaigning for your best player to get MVP is quite different to literally altering game strategies to get an MVP. OKC is probably the first team in NBA history where they have an elite rebounder at center position that doesn't grab defensive rebounds. That is unheard of, and obviously not some revolutionary strategy that translates to wins. If the Rockets made Capela box out for Harden so he could get uncontested rebounds, whilst the team is a mere 6th seed, then I absolutely do consider it embarrassing.

Whilst true, how much resources are put into campaigning? Likely the Rockets' social media/marketing/Daryl Morey, but the key personnel on this team are undoubtedly entirely focused on the game. Remember, Harden himself talked about how much he wants a ring, and as long as he stays true to that statement I have no problem with it.

I can understand your concerns and how the award can seem somewhat less prestigious if too much campaigning is done. But as long as the team and the Rockets are focused on the most important goal of all, then I cannot complain. After all, the Rockets have the best record in the league.

 

Your constant retreating to personal attacks and name-calling when faced with points you disagree with speaks volumes.

You don't need to read my opinions if it bothers you so much. There is an ignore function offered on this forum. I encourage you to use it and save yourself the emotional distress of having your views challenged.

 

Bill Russell the king of this metric heh.

Look at this hack that has yet to actually say something meaningful, but instead responds with ad homs. Do better.

 

It's disingenuous on its face to pretend that people can't think two separate thoughts. Rockets fans can be focused on the playoffs and illustrate the stupidity of sports media at the same time.

"Why are you idiots complaining about MVP when the city is still feeling the effects of Harvey?!?"

Stop making bad posts.

 

MVP and Postseason are not completely separate/independent things in my view. Harden's poor performance in the last postseason game was blamed on his workload in the regular season which directly fed his MVP case (and, perhaps, the desire to build up an MVP case for him had some affect on his regular season workload).

Also: his poor performance in the postseason undercut his MVP case because it cast doubt on his ability to play at an "MVP level" against elite teams in high leverage moments. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have won it. But I do think it should dampen people insistence that him not winning it was some egregious injustice.

 

I'm with NIKEstrad on this one.

 

OKC actually designed their offense and defense around getting Westbrook the MVP last year. Maybe because they did that, our fan base kinda reacted poorly to OKC and WBs pathetic and embarrassing MVP campaign that required getting a triple double.

Let's not criticize the losers here. The winner was more obsessed and embarrassing, because it wasn't about winning games.

Do you really think we were more obsessed than OKC fans? And as far as an organization compainging with stats and precedence in the last few weeks, that doesn't mean they were losing sight of winning...you can do both just like a Heisman campaign. We didn't adjust our offense and defense to accommodate a MVP race...OKC did that, not us.

And your comments about Game 6 have zero to do with the MVP race...push narratives much?

 

More revisionist rationalization for a regular season award won and announced while Harden and Westbrook were still active in the playoffs. Look if you want to be fished-in hook, line and sinker by the media's shaky and unreliable standards that's fine.

It's a load of more work for you because they change by the year and you have to come up with these stretchy remarks.

If you're annoyed by the sturm and drang on here, it has to be said then that the point is that the media doesn't even know these mythical MVP standards either!

So there's that too.

That was last year. So uhhh how you gonna rubber band rationalize Harden's runner up showing the year before and what they said then?

All this talk about "credit" is again, mythical albeit debate-worthy. Still doesn't explain why you're irked by other fans being irked at Harden's perennial snubs.

Finally, the big whopper to your shifty revisionist stance is that yes, his award could be tainted right now as much as Nash would be to some people if he only won MVP one year and it was final. LeBron had a 'tainted' history in Cleveland as a playoff choker. Now his MVPs are 'justified' as much as ringless Nash's.

Come live in the here and now Durvasa. Accept the taint and watch Hardens legacy thrive even more.