too much for a wade at this stage of his career. he can still play somewhat but probably 50-60% of the season and minutes in the 25 range
I just remember when he turned into MJ during the 2016 post season against the Hornets to knock em out. He was flawless and lethal in those couple of games. Just so artistically dominated. Something I haven't really seen since the early 2000s or 90s. It wasn't some bs 3s or whatever but beautiful footwork to execute some mid-range jumpers or take the defenders off the dribble. Only player with that kind of foot work that last played was Kobe unfortunately.
wade's definitely a proven star. but that tank is about a quarter left haha. im just glad he didn't just opt out to join the rest of his boys in the league. but $20+ mil isn't exactly easy
I don't think those trades are available to the Celtics at all. You can tell based on which reporters are and aren't reporting things. Sac said no to 5 and 10. The Celtics are ahead. It's more than just having talent. As mentioned, there are teams with comparable strength in assets. No one better than the Celtics though, and no management better than the Celtics in the past few years, and a handful of teams with better coaching. On court, they have young guys playing team ball on offense and defense. Even if it were the worst conference in the history of the NBA, and even if the #2 seed was a clearly better team than them, finishing first is gigantic and as I said if you pick often enough in the top 5 you will get a franchise player. It's inevitable. Butler and Hayward would not mesh simply because an above average scorer like Gordon would torch them regularly. Thomas is a useless defender too, despite his self-marketing. Doesn't work, as cool as it might look in highlight reels. Moreover, Ainge would clearly rather have one shot at a franchise player than securing 2 All Stars. And I agree with him. The downside of Tatum being just a good pick is that they added a good young player to the #1 seed in the worst conference in the history of the NBA. Risk/return is incredible on that. Let's say they get Hayward and Butler. Add it to IT, Crowder and Horford and their fairly young/developing role players. They're not better than Cleveland and they have to now rely on trade to get a franchise player. They will basically not improve internally anymore, which is a massive loss. They can't wait out Lebron's next 2 years or the Warriors next 3-4 years. At least with staying young, they will 100% improve internally by leaps and bounds for years by staying put and many bets placed on players becoming franchise players. Once again, no one can question Ainge. He has earned that. This is the greatest GM'ing anyone has possibly ever done. 25+ teams would trade all their assets to Boston for theirs. And Boston has the management and coaching to boot. IMO GM's are trying to fleece him and fans want eye candy. He is doing the right thing. If he gets just one fair deal somewhere and drafts one all star, he doesn't need anyone else to compete for TEN YEARS. And that is the right way to GM. Not to look for the best team you can possibly create in the short term. If you are planning and building from scratch, might as well plan a dynasty rather than just one ring. He is nailing it.
I'm sure it feels that way. Again, Ainge has been right all along. The Celtics are better today than anyone expected them to be today, and they are better in the future than anyone else is. No need to make a lopsided deal. With the assets he has, he can afford years of patience without losing any upside return.
They were the second best team in the East, in a very weak conference. The Celtics really haven't been a good team in 5-6 years. Jimmy Butler is a vastly superior player than Thomas. Butler can play multiple positions and is one of the few "two way players" in the league. Why can't Butler and Hayward play well together? I think they are a good combo actually. Ehhh..... based on what, draft picks? How is Boston in a better position than Minnesota or a number of other teams. The Celtics lack a franchise player, or really a #2 star player. What players do the Celtics have that you look at and say "well that is a long term all star"? Al Horford is old, Thomas is 28 and a free agent after next year. Tatum? Brown? There are a lot of questions with the Celtics.
Exactly. The Celtics can sit back and keep burning high lottery picks on guys like Smart (#6), Brown (#3), Tatum (#3) and mid level first rounders on guys like Rozier (#16), James Young (#17), Olynyk (#13). Who needs players like Jimmy Butler, Paul George etc. The Celtics better really hope that Tatum or Brown becomes a monster, or that Nets pick becomes a top 10 NBA player.
last i checked other than jimmy butler, nobody else has moved anywhere. they have a plenty of time to make a decision. has FA even started. judging by the way people are talking it has
The general consensus is that it wasn't a lot to give up for Butler. If Ainge really wanted to get Butler, he could have done so, without giving up all the value of the #3 pick this year, or the Nets pick next year, to find a deal that just beat out the Twolves. I think you're being a little too general here. There are definitely management teams and coaching staffs ahead of the Celtics. They're near the top for sure... But there is still no indication they have a transformative superstar on their roster. It's like the Rockets. 3rd best record in the league!! Better than the Celtics. But we know what they're upside is with this team. Umm.... Jimmy Butler is a great defender. Hayward is a solid enough defender. IT is not a good defender. I'm not sure and frankly flabbergasted you'd point to defense as the reason Butler/Hayward couldn't work. As for holding out for a better move... I'm cool with that. It might work in Ainge's favor at some point. We'll see. He does still have assets/young players to move... and I guess if Tatum has a Jaylen Brown esque or slightly better rookie season... then next offseason a trade package of Brown, Tatum, Nets pick, future Kings pick would be a nice haul for to dangle for an AD, or Westbrook... heck, Harden. Those are the only "bigger" fish I can see as even being anywhere remotely close to possibly being moved in the future... though outside of Russ, I think it highly unlikely AD or Harden are moved. That said, we've said this every year for like 4 years. He seems to just keep pushing that ball down the hill instead. Also, relative to Butler, he was third team all nba and plays defense (which is more than I can say for Harden or Russ).. who was traded for a relatively "cheap" price. If Ainge wanted him, he could have gotten him. I mean for all the PG talk, Butler was third team all nba. PG wasn't. They're pretty comparable players. Butler seems like the better fit with the Celtics, though, is locked in contract wise, and ultimately went for a pretty cheap price. They're better than they were and would still have to rely on trade to get a franchise player. The Twolves did not give up future assets to get Butler. To simplify, the Celtics CERTAINLY could have moved the #1 pick for Butler if they wanted to. Obviously too much value to give up, but the Bulls absolutely would have said heck yah. So basically we're talking about comparing having Jayson Tatum or having Jimmy Butler. Ainge chose Tatum over Butler. Maybe... again as I noted above, they basically just chose Tatum over Butler... so they have to really believe Tatum has star potential... or they just recognize its a GSW/Cavs league and are happy to be solid, but no chance at rings. So over the top and dumb. He orchestrated 1 ring - 10 years ago now, but still definitely gets credit for that - and "assets". The Warriors organization has been light years better. The Spurs 20 year run has been light years better (sure they got Duncan as the tentpole #1, then they surrounded that with late pick HOFers and turning George Hill into Kawhi). Pat Riley has been better over the last decade - because 2 rings is better than 1. Etc. Look, nobody is calling Ainge dumb or a bad GM. He's doing a great job. What I'm questioning is the ultimate strategy and plan. Remember, this is a guy that was ready to trade a TON of these assets for Justice Winslow. Then all of a sudden he becomes ultra protective of these picks and young assets. Then he lands #1, in a draft where almost universally BEFORE the Celtics trade it was a clear Fultz is #1 pick narrative, then after the trade its all of a sudden well, we're not sold on him and lot of guys think Josh Jackson is ranked higher, etc. Then he is unable to get Jackson, Fox or Ball to workout. Then he picks Tatum, and says Tatum was their clear #1 from the get go. He also says "they gave up a lot" referring to what the Twolves gave up to get Butler (when, universally, everyone pretty much agrees they didn't). He also says Jaylen Brown is almost untouchable. Then he's maybe trying to get PG13 still - which, mind you, will take some assets so basically be doing the exact same thing as saying get Butler, though PG13 might be a bit cheaper [though I can't imagine much, remember our own Rockets would happily give up as much value as they can for a rental]. Look, I'm not an NBA scout, and my personal scouting has its own hits and misses. I like Tatum and you know can actually see his upside as potentially a Paul Pierce like star down the road. But to me I had him ranked 6th in terms of ultimate potential real superstar upside. Fultz/Ball/Jackson/Fox/Isaacs. Isaacs is a stretch, but if it comes together for him, he can be amazing. I think Tatum's ceiling is actually lower - kid knows how to score, high bball IQ, good measurables... whereas maybe Jackson can't shoot and maybe Fox never learns to shoot and maybe Isaacs never develops an offensive game. Anyway, long response, but that's my two cents.
I think the point was they could have made a move for Butler while still being able to make moves for Hayward while not losing a ton. Basically just losing Tatum and maybe one young player and matching contracts. The point is, they could have beaten Minny's offer easily, while still not giving up that much.
for whatever reason they didn't pull the trigger on it. if they really felt butler was a true piece then they probably would of done it. they did say minny did give up a lot so obviously they weren't willing to beat that price
Sure, absolutely. Ainge said Minny gave up a lot... basically no one else agrees, lol. Ainge also said Jaylen Brown is basically untouchable. Turns out Ainge basically only got Fultz and Tatum in for workouts, and that the Celtics and Bulls hadn't really had any dialogue about a trade for a while. As you said, he must have made it clear... not interested.
It'll be hilarious if non of the Celtics high lottery pick develop into an elite player ( a surprisingly high % of top 3 or top 5 picks turn into complete busts or just role players)
and you can't add up role players to equal an elite player. So, so far, looks like one of these picks must attain Butler status and Fultz must not become better than both.
They don't have to hope. If the combination of all their young players becomes a 2nd and 3rd best player, they'll just sign the best player when he becomes available during their massive window. They are super chilled. This window of opportunity to become an incredible team is not going away. And it's no different than what people were saying about the Warriors. But they built with the right philosophy and they built into a team that won it before Durant, and then Durant joined. That's practically a worst case scenario for Boston. And they can afford to lose guys if it comes to that. And the fact that they topped a weak conference is irrelevant, all that matters is their ceiling in the entire NBA and their ability to realize it. If the difference between 2016 and 2017 is any indication, these guys are going up. It's not a situation like with the Rockets where we have a team that will essentially not get better except for Dekker and Capela. It's a team where annually there are 2 players who could end up being an All Star. Ainge is doing the right thing. Middle fingers in the air, adding 10-15 wins a season, with no end in sight to their ability to add talent. Even adding 2-3 more players that are not stars can push them to 60 wins, added experience and incredible trade pieces. It's pretty ridiculous to characterize their position as "they better hope that pick pans out!". They threw hope out the window. These guys have solid strategy, assets and contingency plans. They're not relying on "hope". Jimmy Butler is at his ceiling, and he was no better at a young age than a bunch of Celtics are right now. Perhaps people have forgotten who Jimmy Butler was in his first few seasons. Or who Draymond Green was. Or how Curry was seen as a fragile guy who can only get you points. Or how James Harden was coming off the bench and his GM refused to max him out. Again, if this Celtics team was barely cutting it in the East, I would understand. But to have 2 top 10 picks and max cap space to add to the #1 seed in the worst conference in history >> this is not a team that's dependent on one pick panning out.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dunnkr01.html Kris Dunn is basically the PG version of Thomas Robinson. Top draft pick, older, supposedly "NBA Ready" rookie, historically horrible inefficient stats.
