(Woj) Sixers extend Embiid

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by DaBeard, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. knote32

    knote32 Contributing Member

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    I couldn't disagree more. A healthy Embiid is on an entirely different plane of existence, IMO.
     
  2. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    in a league that no longer needs Cs.
     
  3. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    Woj:

    As unique of a contract the NBA has seen in recent years.

    Protections the Sixers have, if Embiid had a castrophic injury - could not play anymore - or if they decided they didn't want to live through the injuries, they'd have to waive him to get some money back. That may be as much/in the neighborhood of 50% I'm told. The only way he doesn't get all $148M(or more) would be if Philly decided to cut him. Philly is not cutting him unless they think he can't play physically anymore.

    Why now?

    They would've matched an offer on the market but you're then matching the terms someone else laid out.

    Why does he do it now?

    Security. For Embiid & his agent, to get that security. Both sides had reason to give a little bit.
     
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  4. knote32

    knote32 Contributing Member

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    Until the league changes again, and again, and again, like it always does.
     
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  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    This is questionable. Embiid was silly good last year -- offense and defense. Neither of them are as good an defense as Embiid. Davis' defense is overrated, imo. Maybe he'll be better when he's motivated to win, but Embiid is already better at defense ... and *much* better than KAT.
     
    #45 heypartner, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
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  6. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    This just sounds like DMo's contract in principle.

    This is a very good deal for 76ers, and also a very good deal for Embiid, as he gets the Designated Franchise tag that no offer sheet could have given him next summer

    That is a very complicated way to say the contract is only partially guaranteed for lack of skill at 50%. Unless I'm missing something,it's just 50% partially-guaranteed. Probably the math makes the % adjust each year as he realizes more and more...and he has team option trigger dates.

    The final year allows for a jump to 30% max-level vs 25%, because they are making him a Designated Franchise rookie player. That super raise to 30% apparently is in the form of performance bonuses, though.
     
    #46 heypartner, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Contributing Member

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    I was going to post that they are taking an incredible risk, but with more details coming out, the risk is worth it, in my opinion.
     
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  8. TechieOne

    TechieOne Member

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    Not with the Rockets. :/ You can get similar production from Tarik Black or Nene with much lower salaries. Rockets will spend all their money on Paul , Ariza (maybe) and chase after Melo/Lebron/PG.
     
  9. TechieOne

    TechieOne Member

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    It's just the one dimensional C's they don't value as much. They love 2 way game changing players (ie Embiid). Game changer on defense and offense.
     
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  10. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    He played 25 mins a game. You can take embiid. I am taking KAT who can shoot 3s and actually on the court or Davis.
     
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  11. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    You might want to compare their three point shooting again.

    Yes, we know the injury thing, and we know Embiid was on restricted minutes last year. The point is we aren't talking potential when it comes to skill. We are only worried about injuries. Embiid showed some ridiculous skills on offense and simply dominates KAT in any defensive comparison.
     
    #51 heypartner, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  12. Rockets4Life13

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    I still think the Sixers faked an Embiid Injury to tank for Fultz. They won way too many games with Embiid on the Floor.
    I've watched a lot of Sixers Games when Embiid was playing and i really think he could be the best Defensive and offensive C in about 1-2 Years IF! he stays healthy.
    Worth the risk imo.
     
  13. Houstunna

    Houstunna Contributing Member

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    Contract better have a GP requirement.

    He got G, but minimal GP.
     
  14. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...se-contractually-specific-catastrophic-injury

    Here's how a perfect storm of calamity would have to unfold for Embiid to earn any less than this full $146.5 million:

    • Across each of the final four seasons of the extension, ending with the 2022-23 season, the 76ers could waive Embiid for a financial benefit if he's lost because of a contractually agreed upon injury that causes him to miss 25 or more regular-season games and if he plays less than 1,650 minutes, league sources said.
    • Specific injuries are laid out in the contract and only include past problem areas with Embiid's feet and back, sources said. Embiid has to miss 25 or more regular-season games because of injuries in those areas, and play less than 1,650 minutes, for Philadelphia to have the option of releasing him for cost savings.
    • If Embiid hypothetically suffered a serious knee or wrist injury -- something outside the contractual language surrounding the feet and back -- the 76ers have no avenue to waive Embiid to reclaim any portion of his salary. And given Embiid's rare talent, there's a belief that he'd have to suffer a career-ending injury to inspire the 76ers to release him.
    • If Embiid meets that narrow criteria and the Sixers decided to waive him after the 2018-19 season, he would receive $84.2 million of his full contract; $98.2 million after the 2019-20 season; $113.3 million after the 2020-21 season and $129.4 million after the 2021-22 season.
    • If Embiid plays a minimum of 1,650 regular-season minutes in three consecutive years during the extension, or three out of four including the 2017-18 season, those benchmarks would eliminate the possibility of a reduction in the contract, league sources said.
    • The first full season of Embiid's contract extension starts with the 2018-19 season and pays him $25.3 million, a salary that escalates a standard 8 percent a year until the 2022-23 season.
    • For Embiid to reach the threshold of the super maximum contract criteria - which would pay him 30 percent of the salary cap and ultimately as much as $176 million -- Embiid must earn first-team All-NBA honors or be voted the NBA's Most Valuable Player in the 2017-18 season.
    • Embiid is expected to be ready to play for the Sixers on opening night on Oct. 18 against Washington, but could initially face minute restrictions as part of the rehab process on his knee.
     
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  15. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    @BimaThug -- how would you explain that Supermax criteria. Is that negotiable? Doesn't seem to fit the criteria in the Coon FAQ. Does missing two years of tenure to injury allow for just making All-NBA once?

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q24

    The wording in JR's quote is odd. My understanding is the criteria to reach the 30% SuperMax is not negotiable -- meaning it's a CBA rule, agreed upon jointly by Players Union and Owners ... to avoid individual contract negotiation. In other words, the CBA doesn't allow changing the criteria for a team to give a rookie extension player the 30% Supermax; otherwise, it just becomes a new Max that anyone can negotiate.

    The old CBA criteria that still applies to 2017 is this: Coon FAQ http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q24

    (#1 Footnote) In 2017 only, the previous criteria applied for players finishing their fourth season [this year will be Embiid's 4th Y of tenure) to earn the 30% maximum: A) The player was named to the All-NBA First, Second or Third team at least twice; B) The player was voted as a starter in the All-Star game at least twice; OR C) The player was named the NBA Most Valuable Player at least once.
    The new criteria is this:

    A player's eligibility for a higher maximum salary doesn't imply he will actually receive that amount -- as with all contracts, the actual salary is a matter of negotiation between the player (or his agent) and his team. However, a Designated Rookie must receive at least 25% of the cap. In addition, for players entering their fifth season the exact percentage of the cap can be based on how the player meets the 5th Year, 30% Max criteria. For example, a rookie scale extension can specify that the player will receive 27% of the cap if he meets the criteria by being named to the All NBA Second Team, 28% if he meets the criteria by being named to the All NBA First Team, or 30% if he meets the criteria by being named Most Valuable Player.
     
  16. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Embiid played like what, 25 mpg last year? And he didn't play back2backs right? And he's still injured this coming season? Sorry but I'd take Davis or Kat who can play every game and as many mins as needed.

    When you say whether any player is better, you are talking about the whole sum of the player and health is a big factor on that. How can you say if Embiid is really better on D when he plays just 25 mpg and is really fresh since he never plays back2back? Give Davis that short of pt every game and he might just dominate on D.
     
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  17. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Right now, I and everyone would take KAT and Davis over Embiid, too. Like I said to AirLanghi...we all know the injury and why KAT and Davis are safer picks. But that wasn't the point.

    Anyhoot ... this discussion is falling into a boring discussion of semantics.

    If you want to still understand my point, it's in this spoiler

    I was responding to AirLanghi saying KAT and Davis are better, and they can't make the playoffs on their own. He says that in an absolute way, that I'm not agreeing with. Imo, they are likely *only* better because they have no injury risk like Embiid. Otherwise, the skill level based upon what we saw him do last year is amazing, right up there with KAT and Davis.

    Plus, Embiid was 13-16 in games he got over 20 minutes. And that didn't include Simmons and Fultz and Redick. So regarding the "can't make the playoffs" part if KAT and Davis couldn't ... I think Philly has an extremely good chance to make the playoffs if Embiid plays with little injury.

    If you want to say, "Yeah, but how do we know he can sustain it?" Well, then, again we all agree. But the point is that we aren't talking about his potential to show us greatness in real NBA games. He's done that. So, it's far from giving a Draft Day Embiid or Draft Day Davis this amount of money. Embiid is much closer to being a proven commodity, but with major injury risk. What I saw last year in plenty of games was an extremely potent weapon who displayed skilz equal if not better than both KAT and Davis, when you include the defense, too.

    does that mean he's better than KAT and Davis? Again, in a draft right now, I take both KAT and Davis over him ... but ONLY because of injury risk.
     
  18. malakas

    malakas Member

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    I thought the criteria for supermax now had nothing to do with ASG and only with mvp or all nba teams?

    Anyway, now that the details have been revealed it's obvious to me that Philly made the right choice to extend him now.
    The only way they are screwed is if this year he suffers a horrible injury somewhere apart from his feet or back.

    Interesting to see if this type of contract doesn't become more popular. I bet the NBPA doesn't like this at all.
     
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  19. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member

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    There is no way this kind of contract becomes the norm. Embiid is just a special case. The guy has a ton of talent and the franchise obviously sees him as a franchise player but his injuries make it difficult to fully commit a guaranteed contract to him. Like others have said, it's a win win situation for the team and the player.
     
  20. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Not the norm, but why not become more popular?
    It doesn't have to be a caliber of talent like Embiid's to have these protections on a contract.
    For example up next is Jabari Parker. Who also wants a max.
     
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