[Why teams win?]And why we cannot lose Battier/Hayes/Scola

They're all good guys from what I can tell. I've heard stories from people who have met them and they have that class, similar to Hakeem class, and they treat people like they'd like to be treated. I love that our vets are not prissy divas. They're the glue and they set a great example for rookies who can see that you don't have to act like a jerk to be in the league a long time.

 

We can lose Hayes and Battier, Scola is a better player/leader anyway.

And with Yao back, we have good veteran leadsership.

DD

 

Grizzlies from 2006-2007 are a terrible example..If you even bothered to look up what you were talking about you would see that Pau Gasol missed 21 games in the beginning of the season. Rudy Gay as a rookie WAS NOT better than Battier in 2006-2007 even on paper.

 

we have great locker room presence, his name is adelman. I agree that shane is a great asset for the younger players, but as this team gets older that really isn't as necessary.

 

Love Hayes and Shane BUT their time is running out with the squad. Hayes has been playing less and less time and with the potential that Morey will go after a legit big I can see the Rox not bringing back the Chuckwagon. Shane and Trev are just to redundant to see that continue and his value is still high enough to contenders to get some serious value for him.

The squad should have plenty of Veterans to prove leadership and direction like Yao, Scola, and whoever comes on board will be a veteran along with Ariza who should be coming into his own as a leader.

 

going forward, what young players need his guidance? the billups situation doesn't compare because billups is a finals mvp. his actual play is missed in detroit more than his intangibles

 

Definitely agree. Billups was the far superior player at that time. Iverson came into the NBA 10 years too soon.

 

i hope you're kidding. Scola, although his english is much improved, it's still not great, but mainly he's not the kind to speak up a lot. Same goes for Yao. Leaders need to be able to get their point across quickly and efficiently. Battier seems to do this well on his own and chuck holds back more, but can do it when needed.

Dont forget leadership doesnt stop outside of the 48 mins of play. Martin isn't that guy either. Brooks isnt. Lowry could be. No one else on the team has it though. You can bet this team doesnt win a ring without that kind of guy. It doesnt have to be battier or hayes, but if they get rid of those guys they better get another or others with the same leadership qualities.

 

I think Hayes is vital, because we need him against other bigs, he can neutralize some pretty above average players. Which will only give us more edge, when Yao returns.

 

we dont need battier... his time is just about up. its time to move forward.

 

Who else can stop Kobe though? Trevor? No. Budinger, no. Martin. No. We still need battier to get over the lakers

 

The Battier can lockdown Kobe card is so overplayed. Get over it. There are better lockdown defenders on Kobe these days. Ariza can hold down Kobe as well if not better than Battier these days.

But yes , Battier's leadership and lockerroom presence is appreciated, even moreso this year due to the injury to Yao.

By the time both Battier and Hayes are gone, we'll have a lot of potential candidates that can replace them in the leadership and 'glue' department - Brooks, Lowry, Scola (if he's still here), and maybe even Ariza or Budinger. I think all five of those players have potential to be great locker room influences. I think Brooks and Lowry have really stepped up their leadership presence this year, both on and off the court, and I can totally see them being captains down the line.

 

So their best player missing 1/4 of the season in a part where teams are supposed to be gelling doesn't have a big impact? Plus you conveniently forgot to mention that Battier was way better as a player than the rookie Rudy Gay which basically trumps your argument for 06-07.

 

I think they are likely to let Hayes walk. Since we will be in the lux tax his contract extension would cost Les like 4 million.

I hope they decide to keep him. He has quietly gotten much better offensively. If he keeps it up he might be good for 2-3 decent looking touches a game.

 

truguy, I think you're trying to hard to make your point. Your 3 cases are kind of weak. All 3 can be explaineed by other factors besides the disappearance of vets, and none of them are really championship teams.

That said, it well agreed upon that you veteran leadership is a good thing. I would guess that the average years experience on championship teams would consistently be over half the rest of the league.

Of the 3 players you mentioned, only Battier really strikes me as a leader per se. Of course, we're not in the locker room to tell for sure. Battier seems to be the guy who's instructing others on defense and sharing his experience. That's not to say that Scola and Hayes don't set examples by giving it all they got every night, that's just not what Battier gives you.

What I think gives this team a bit of an engle is how it's constructed and how the players are utilizied. It looks as though every player on the team knows why they were brought in, what's expected of them, and feels that thier role is vital (accept for trade filler guys). As well, I think the other players know the role of everyone else and how it helps the team and themselves better. It's a win win all around.

 

I think this is a brilliant thread and fully agree with the OP. He even backed it up with impressive stats about how teams that didn't lose much talent on paper completely lost their winning ways. I'm surprised that not more people speak up agreeing with this.