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Why do I/we undervalue Yao?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rileydog, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    You don't think the Rockets have been particularly vulnerable to midrange shooting centers in recent years?
     
  2. Hanbin

    Hanbin Member

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    To expound on that - the last couple of games against the Sonics the problem wasn't Collison, Petro and Thomas hitting the 14 footer, it was Ridnour and Watson getting anywhere they wanted on the court that was the problem.
     
  3. poprocks

    poprocks Member

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    That's cause when Yao tries hard to defend he always gets called for a stupid foul. He doens't foul but that's why he can't lean on other players like they do on him. It's BS but it is what it is.
     
  4. FFz

    FFz Member

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    I think part of that was because rafer had some quick fouls and his backup AB picked up quick ones too, so Rafer couldn't be as agressive chasing Watson and Ridnour off pick and rolls. Normally hes pretty solid at fighting through the picks. I dont know what was up with battier and head though. They were real bad at chasing szerback and durant off the screens.
     
  5. eatsleepdrink

    eatsleepdrink Member

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    You play to your own strength. If the cost of shuting down the paint is giving people jump shots I'll take it, then as a coach I'd try figuring out a remedy to address this issue. The problem for Rox is they have no athletic PF, and their guards are at most average playing defence. None of them seldom fight thru the picks, so the issue becomes magnified.

    But still, you've got to pick your poison. You want Yao to leave the paint to guard this mid-range jumpers? I think the consequence could be even worse. So when JVG had Yao defending Boozer, did it help much? No, it only exhausted Yao and makes him even less effective at the offensive end.

    The bottomline is this team just doesn't have the personnel to handle this strategy well. Shaq even at his prime couldn't defend PnR at all, but his teams had the right personnel to cover up, so people can focus on Shaq's value in defending low post. Yao doesn't have that, and people want him to don a red underwear outside his pants.
     
  6. ibm

    ibm Member

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    imo yao and lazy just don't belong to the same sentence. tired and lose a certain stance, maybe. lazy? wrong word by you to say the least.

    and how much space you give a guy depends on how good overall that guy is. yao purposedly gave boozer that much space to prevent him from going by him. it's a judgment on the court. the basic stuff you preached in your post as to how to contest a jumper, i'm sure everyone on the team understands.
     
  7. ibm

    ibm Member

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    it makes perfect sense to have a game plan to leave some space to the bigs and dare them to make them. the sonics bigs struggled in the 1st game in that jumper and a big reason why that game was easier. but when they got hot as last night, it is necessary to adjust your defense. adelman, yao and the team were all slow on that last night.

    and yao's always had some problems with the blunt's and thomas's who have the ability to shoot a mid-range shot.

    enough already. i feel like i'm hijacking this thread sideways. sorry.
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Don't worry, fella, I managed to get through your barely coherent post and responded exactly the way I intended to.

    Dream was playing great against McHale when McHale was in his prime, as were several incredible centers that would give nightmares to opposing teams today. You might want to consider reading your own posts. Thanks.
     
  9. oneonepyopyo

    oneonepyopyo Member

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    Thx for your wonderful ability of understanding. But I am afraid you got to REREAD my second post and pay attention to the BLACK letters. I just responded exactly the way I intended to AS WELL.


    I do ponder before I write. Thx for your kind advice, but seems not necessary. And I know Dream was playing great against McHale when McHale was at his prime considering Dream is still a rookie back to 1986(the last ring McHale had).

    I think I need to remind you again I meant who else was playing great when Dream was at his prime(1993-1995)(I think I did mention in both of my posts). As far as I recalled, McHale was not the one on the list.
     
  10. qiuhui999

    qiuhui999 New Member

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    Great comment
     
  11. poprocks

    poprocks Member

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  12. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    Well I know ibm is going to read and respond to this post. Maybe lazy was the wrong word, but when mcgrady gets tired and starts to launch jumpers, what do you call it?

    Maybe technique break down sounds better, but its the same thing. Next time old ass deke enters the ball game and the guy hed guarding has the ball, watch how low he gets. Now I know Yao will never be the defender or rebounder deke ever was, but this is something he should learn from deke. Not only playing with leverage would help him on defense, but on offensive positioning. If he would get his ass down and bend his knees, he wouldn't get pushed off the spot.

    This thing about the past centers vs the guys now isn't even worth arguing really. The reason is because most guys arguing for the guys today wasn't watching hoops in the 80's and 90's. I mean parrish came in the league in 80,mchale 81, sampson 83,dream 84, ewing and willis 85,daughtery 86,robinson 89, deke 91, mourning and shaq 92. Need is say more? Plus moses and kareem were still very good until about 87.
     
  13. ThaBlackKnight

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    I have to deal with this at home with my Dad. He doesn't feel that Yao is good enough at anything. "He should dunk the ball more, he should play defense better, block more shots, take less fade aways...."

    We were definetily spoiled by Hakeem Olajuwon and for Rockets fans who were watching in the late 70's and early 80's, Moses Malone as well. When you had Hall of Fame centers like that, of course Yao will never be good enough. He has some weaknesses in his game, which is mosty due to his large stature and lack of athletecism.

    However, we should be grateful for what he can do. The only other 2 players who were near Yao's height who had a small amount of success in the NBA were Ralph Sampson and Rik Smits. Yao has already accomplished more individually in 6 years than those 2 players combined in their careers. People who are over 7'1 should not be able to move the way Yao is able to. They should not be able to come back from multiple injuries without missing a beat the way Yao has been able to. Most players that big also don't get more athletic as they get older, but Yao has worked extremely hard to get to where he is at now, compared to when he was a rookie. He could've very easily had his career over by now because of injuries, or play every season with a dragging injury, but he keeps himself in shape and will play as long as he doesn't have a broken bone. That shows you how much heart he has.

    He may not be able to block every shot, he may not be able to step out on pick and rolls the way Dream used to, or get offensive rebounds at will the way Moses Malone did, but I'll take 25 ppg, 10 rpg, 2.5 bpg any day. He is not supposed to be able to do all of that at 7'6 310 lbs. But he does, and its amazing, and I have ALWAYS been a Yao Ming fan and that won't change as long as he plays basketball.
     
  14. ibm

    ibm Member

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    and i know you'd be back, too. lol.

    but what's the point of your post? you wrote a lot in this post, but it seems you wanted to achieve only 2 things: (1) to give yao some pointers as to how to play bball. i hope yao is reading your posts, too; so he may give you some feedback. what i get confused is, he's the #1 pick and you're? at college level? were you drafted by the nba? (2) to point out many folks here didn't watch the league in the 80's and the 90's. probably true. so i take your words and assume you did. does that make you somehow superior to those who didn't?

    btw, hall of fame question. who's in and who's out? have you done your research?
     
  15. jVgOwnsYou

    jVgOwnsYou Contributing Member

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    Nice post. Yao has really come a long way. He has made progress in so many areas of his game. The most significant progress I have seen is in his endurance.

    Yao is able to play 40 minutes now without tiring down at the end. Early in his career I was pretty concerned with his inability to stay on the floor due to committing stupid fouls because of fatigue. Yao seems to have solved that problem and he's really playing at a really high level now.

    The only thing keeping him from being truly dominant is the inability of his team mates to get him the ball. If we had a strong guard who could penetrate the defense consistantly(Ala chris paul, Baron Davis) Yao Ming would probably score 30 points a night because that would free him up for unstoppable dunks and offensive rebounds in the paint. Tracy is really the only consistant penetrator on our team and he doesn't do it nearly as often as he should. Rafer is an ok penetrator but he isnt big enough or long enough to get the passes over big men and in to Yao.

    I really wish the Rockets could figure out a way to beat the fronting defense consistantly. It seems like when we drive the ball to the basket when teams front Yao something good always happens. An open three or a layup. I don't know why our guys are so reluctant to drive to the paint.
     
  16. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    Like I have before, yao is really playing well right now. I've said it before that that we should expect him to play at a high level especially with the current center crop.

    The thing is as gets older and younger guys come in, technique is what can keep him very effective. I think his subtle techniques that he can learn from a guy like deke. That doesn't mean I'm trying to trade him.

    Look, I worry more about his shelf life because of his offseason commitments. The moment yao stops playing in the summers, he'll play even better ror the rox. To reach his peak, he's going to have to give his body rest.I don't care how strong a guy is, u can't play yr around.

    I'm not going back to the center debate. As I stated in a earlier post, dream played against a lot of hof guy at his position.Parrish,mchale,malone,robinson,ewing,kareem. Are either in already or waiting their 5 yrs. Shaq,mourning and deke are probably going in also.
     
  17. ibm

    ibm Member

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    good post. i can't say i disagree. though i could post something "against" you, i actually think you're a good and knowledgeable poster.

    as to yao's offseason, he's been able to cut down the meaningless games and practices with his china national team a little bit. but 2008 is the olympic year and it's in china, he might pick it up again. yao is such a loyal guy to his country, an entirely duty-free offseason for him (so that he can go on with his own offseason schedule as he should) to me is almost impossible. sigh.
     
  18. Thurogood

    Thurogood Member

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    I have supported Yao since day 1. I was and I still am very excited that we were lucky enough to draft Yao Ming. The biggest difference in his game this year to prior years is that he DUNKING on everybody. He has become a physical force and HE WILL dunk on your best shot blocker. Just watch.

    Young
    Akeem
    Olajuwon

    Maturing
    Into
    Nba
    Greatness

    Give the orange ball to the yellow man and he will produce gold!
     
  19. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    There's a lot of discussion on pick and roll defense in this thread, after the Seattle game. Feigen had some comments about that, and his views are usually a good reflection of what the coaches are thinking:

     
  20. Russjr2

    Russjr2 Contributing Member

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    Once our supporting cast gets more consistent (i.e better), Yao will start to look a whole lot better.
     

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