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Why do I/we undervalue Yao?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rileydog, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I think we all need to watch Kwane Brown "highlights" just to remind us how fortunate Houston is.

    HOF centers don't grow on trees.
     
  2. yaorta

    yaorta Member

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    think about it, if we had shap, we would be harping on his free throw, people never get content
     
  3. v3.0

    v3.0 Contributing Member

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    I didn't know someone was going to argue with me on his definition of a superstar...

    ...ok, let's just say all-star...

    My statement still holds...
     
  4. ibm

    ibm Member

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    i like this thread a lot. i agree with the o.p. that we as rockets and nba fans in general should learn to appreciate yao a bit more. and i do think that, as time goes on, more appreciation will come along.

    one thing i've been wondering. yao has been playing in an environment that is very much "center-unfriendly" as compared to the past, mainly due to some rule changes (many of which don't make sense to me). hakeem is on top of my all-time favorite list (bet it's the same for many on this board). but, what if he had to play in today's environment? how's his effectiveness gonna be impacted? we will have no way to know, but it's been intriguing to me to think about it. and you can tell this question applies to all the great centers that have played the game.

    hopefully when they (are supposed to) tilt the rules back to where they were a bit next year, we can see some difference.
     
  5. AttackTheRack

    AttackTheRack Member

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    He's still getting better, believe it or not. His range has vanished this year for some reason. If he can get that back, he'll be an even more potent weapon. And let's not forget that he's the worst reffed player in the whole L. And that's not even discussing the double teams without the ball. If he played in the 'illegal defense' era with one-on-one D - fawgetaboutit! Even the greatest centres of that era couldn't contain Yao on the defensive end: too much height, and too many moves. Course, he'd get torched on the other end, too, but so it goes. He's a victim of his era, more than anything else. That's why I love him. I've watched NBA ball for a looooong time, and I know a monster when I see one. And Yao's a monster!
     
  6. kwng

    kwng Member

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    After so many season watching, most people knew what Yao are capable of
    and what he is not. He has a few limitations which make quite a lot fans frustrated and these limitations are not seen in Tim Duncan. But that's reality,
    he has some very strong points which no one can match and he has some weaknesses which are obvious. BUT THEN I observed other centers, they have weaknesses also though some of them are not so obvious. I also noted, Tim Duncan and a few centers are more of PF type and hence more athletic.

    TO ME, here's where the crucial importance of the coach comes in. HE and only he can device, plan and develop a system, game plans and strategy to utilise Yao in the right way, to obfuscate and minimise the effects of Yao limitations.
    His team mates and the way of playing (attacking and defending strategies) are designed and deviced to maximise contributions from Yao and eliminates if possible the negative effects of his limitations. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE COACH.
    For eg. imagine, a coach strategising Shaq to be a perimeter player in any game when he does not has the ability to be shooter. Shaq will not contribute at all if this happened and he'll be frustrated and demoralised.
     
  7. noname

    noname Member

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    Yao is just limited by the objective conditions, such as his very height and the time of PG/SG now but not the CF time before!

    Well, if Duncan is 7'6', could he be athletic and get the ball easy like now? the turnovers would not increase? We must see that Yao was alway double or triple, why not other teams did the same to Duncan? The answer is Park ,Ginobili and other 3-point shooters! So if Duncan come to Rocket replace Yao, where's the answer?

    And now, what's the answer of Rockets? Nash? Billups? Chris Paul?
     
  8. deeperblue

    deeperblue Member

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    Come on, man.

    Yes, Yao hasn't proved that he can be unstoppable in playoff. But T-Mac is unstoppable in playoff? You got to be kidding.


     
  9. ibm

    ibm Member

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    i don't like the yof label (or other labels such as tof), though i don't really mind of being called one.

    that aside, why is it not fair to compare yao to duncan (or any other big man, present or past)? you made it sound like yao is not "worthy" to be in the same sentence with duncan, which, is absurd. notice we're comparing individual strength and weaknesses, not achievement.

    and honestly, duncan is starting to show his initial decline imo. if i were the gm, i would not trade yao for duncan right now. i think houston has a better chance to win a championship with yao as the centerpiece in the next few years than with duncan.
     
  10. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    b/c duncan can combat that by going to the mid-range game (he's the king of the bank shots). it's not necessarily the shooters.

    that's why adelman attempts to do that with yao in the high post and it failed. it's VERY VERY easy to double/triple team a guy if all he does is stay in the same area.

    the reason why perimeter players are so hard to double all the time is b/c if you shut down one part of the court, they go to the outside (3pt shot or things like that).

    yao's game is 8-10 ft. he goes beyond that, he's ineffective.
     
  11. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    T-mac gets the same treatment as Yao, his not in the same sentance as he hasn't gotton out of the first round. I appreciate what Yao does. His developing into a great player. But i think even he will admit he still has much more room to grow.
     
  12. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    If the ball down low in Yao's hands up and straight, he is the most unstoppable beast I have ever seen. It's how to get him into that situation. He is really about 3 steps slower than everybody else on the court in terms lat movement, and it's frustrating. TD turns the ball over too, but he is active. Defensively, Yao's defense on PnR is just pain to watch. The thing with Yao is that he is so excellent in some areas like FT and soft touch, but absolutely horrible(probably not even at minimal NBA level) in other areas,
     
  13. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    exactly, we're comparing yao to a DECLINING duncan. i think in his prime, yao is nowhere close to duncan. scoring, yao might be on par. but you have to remember, in his prime, duncan was all-nba defense first team IN HIS FIRST 9 SEASONS (along with all-nba 1st team).

    duncan is not as dominant as he once was, not even close offensively. yao has surpassed him offensively in terms of dominance (if anyone questions that, you're just a hater). but what makes duncan still so respected (besides his team and individual achievements) is his defensive greatness. he's still one of the best help defenders in the L and arguably one of the top 3 man defenders at his position.
     
  14. ibm

    ibm Member

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    that is probably true. but SHOULD not be that way, though. this 1st round exit thing, like so many other things in the nba, is so grossly overrated imo.
     
  15. oneonepyopyo

    oneonepyopyo Member

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    You should seriously ponder before you speak. Yao does not get even one single open shot in the games. How many times did you see he was posting up and pushed the way to the basket? I am wondering what kind of 'own shots' you want from him?

    Hakeem

    Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
    1993-94 31 HOU NBA 80 3277 2184 27.3 894 1694 .528 388 542 .716 8 19 .421 229 726 955 11.9 287 3.6 128 297 3.39 289
    1994-95 32 HOU NBA 72 2853 2005 27.8 798 1545 .517 406 537 .756 3 16 .188 172 603 775 10.8 255 3.5 133 242 3.29 250

    Yao Ming

    2005-06 25 HOU NBA 57 1946 1271 22.3 467 900 .519 337 395 .853 0 1 .000 148 433 581 10.2 85 1.5 30 94 2.58 195
    2006-07 26 HOU NBA 48 1625 1202 25.0 423 819 .516 356 413 .862 0 2 .000 101 350 451 9.4 93 1.9 17 94 3.48 159

    If we only look at the stats of Hakeem's prime time, Hakeem brought a greater stats on RPG and AST. I believe, outside of the box, it means Hakeem played better on defense and created more opportunities for his teammates. If you compare their ability of making scores, I dont see the much difference at all. The only difference is Hakeem got more shots than Yao does.

    Statistically speaking, the Rockets need to figure out how to feed the ball to Yao (more shots) and how to utilize Yao when he is on the floor. Apparently this has be spoken over and over again.

    With the great Hakeem there, we might look at what had made him so successfully and what has changed today. By looking at his shoulders, who was standing next to him? and who were his teammates?

    What has changed today? Rules has changed which give centers the disadvantages.

    Once we checked those two things, we might realize that Yao takes more less responsibilites for the exit of first round of playoffs and after all he is just doing great.

    With a healthy T-mac and Yao and by putting the right pieces around them, I believe the Rockets is able to win a ring. I am seeing RA is doing that job right now. And that will not be so far away from my standpoint.
     
  16. LCII

    LCII Contributing Member

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    I never undervalue Yao. But I agree with great powers, come great expectations..er responsibilities..which is why some fans are never satisfied with what Yao does.
     
  17. deeperblue

    deeperblue Member

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    Of course, TD has achieved a lot, but not without a lot of pain.

    I don't think his first titles mean much, as it was in a shortened season, and in the several years after, Spurs were consistenly beaten by Lakers mean that they were just lucky in that shortened season.

    During Laker's champaignship years, if you have watched the playoff games between lakers and Spurs, you will find that no matter how much lead Spurs had in first half (or even in the first three quarters), they collapsed badly in the fourth quarter, and as soon as Lakers started to double TD for real in the fourth quarter, he started to turn over a lot (like balls got stripped when DT'ed). I was very frustrated at him back then.

    Don't forge that TD has been in a much deeper team and has a much better coach.

    So far Yao hasn't achieved anything compared with TD. Yao needs more time to prove himself. Maybe he can win a title, maybe not.

    But I have a strong believe that if you put today's Yao into last couple years' Supr team (i.e. replace TD with Yao), I think Spurs would have very good chance to win the title, too.




     
  18. v3.0

    v3.0 Contributing Member

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    one other thing:

    Yao has been an automatic miss these days when he takes an uncontested outside shot from the 15 ft range around the top of the key. I cringe whenever they do a pick and fade and Yao's man leaves him to guard the driver, and Yao gets the pass and is wide open, therefore he is inclined to take the wide open J. I find myself saying, "That's a miss" when he launches that shot.

    Pretty peculiar when he can make a tough baseline fadeaway jumper from the same distance with a defender on him, but he can't hit that wide open J. I think he justs rushes himself.
     
  19. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    i think beyond that, it's also the INDIVIDUAL achievements. duncan got 1st team in both offense and defense for 9 straight years. regardless of whether his team was deep or not, he DOMINATED on both ends for a long stretch. yao hasn't done that.

    tmac has dominated offensively, but he has ZERO recognition for his defense (that's why kobe > tmac without question even during tmac's prime in orlando).
     
  20. deeperblue

    deeperblue Member

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    Why does a center need to put the ball on floor? And Yao can't creat shot for himself? He can't create the shots that guards can creat, but he can create shot that a center should.

    Dream is a totally different story. Just too good to be mimiced by others.

    Can Shaq create on his own by putting the ball on the floor? Well, with his shoulder knocking down people, he can. But when the rules changed (like today), I bet he must figure out something different for him to be effective.


     

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