1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Who would you trade for a power forward?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Plowman, Dec 12, 1999.

Tags:
  1. rocketsfan34

    rocketsfan34 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    1
    Mo may be better than Theo, but we would have to give up Mobley. That's the problem, not that we wouldn't rather have Mo. Plus, if we do get a PF that means we can focus gettin a SF in the draft. With our many picks and our high draft position, there is a possibility of gettin Morris. Francis, Mobley, Anderson, Morris, Rogers, Theo, Cato. That's one hell of a defensive team.
     
  2. sir scarvajal

    sir scarvajal Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a big Mobley fan, but if we can get Jamesion for him and scrubs by all means we should. He is young and very athletic for his size, and is the kind of guy you will need to defensively match-up with the next generation of SF's (Garnett, Abdur-Rahim). We can work on his offensive game, James Worthy didn't have an outside shot when he entered the league either and started out as mainly a speed small forward. In short, because of defense and athleticsm at the 3, Jamesion is much better option than Ratlif (who is older and can't play the 3), though the Clip deal might be better (because of both players involved).

    That said, Jamesion is the closest thing to an untouchable in GS, I think it would take more than say Mobes & Mack or Willimas/ Bullard. Also, for the last year and a half I have been screaming for Starks to come here, but no more. We are not going anywhere by the time he will be through and we need Francis, Anderson, and either Mobley or Drew to develop now. I'll take Starks on as a mentor (he plays very hard and smart believe it or not) if he is a throw in, but wouldn't give up any future worth for him now.

    [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited December 13, 1999).]
     
  3. RocketsPimp

    RocketsPimp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    13,812
    Likes Received:
    194
    Popeye, great run down.

    First the Warriors deal. As athletic as Jamison is I do not think he will make our current roster any better and may in fact make it worse. While his 45% FG shooting would be a welcome addition, his pathetic 55% FT shooting would severely hinder a team with a terrible FT% as it is. It's like having a less productive Shaq IMO.

    As for the Clippers, almost any deal where the Rockets can get Mo Taylor I am for. He could easily step into the starting PF position and make his presense felt. I agree that any deal including Williams, TMass and possibly Drew would be great. I'd prefer the Rockets keep Mobely just because of the fire he brings onto the court. Nesby has potential, but needs to work on the jumper. The Rox have enough players shooting in the low 30%.

    With the Sixers, I'm a bit confused. Why is everyone so wound up about Ratliff? The guy is only shooting 38% and hasn't played a game in weeks due to injury. If I am rudy or C.D. there is no way I trade for Ratliff with his outrageous salary. As for Hughes, I have liked what I've seen so far. I've yet to hear he is on the trading block, but if he is I'd make a run at him.
     
  4. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    6,993
    Likes Received:
    144
    PimpDaddy

    Larry Hughes is more on the trading block than anybody in the NBA!
     
  5. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    12,234
    Likes Received:
    13,142
    Pimp,
    On the contrary,Theo is a bargain at 7mil./yr for the life of the contract.He is signed through 2004 or something.Ratliff has an NBA body combined with incredible athleticism.He has started to mature of late and can now stick the 10-15 footer.Theo's awesome defensive prescence at the 4 is something that cannot be underestimated.The foot work is there and when turned over to the Rocket's staff I am confident his offensive game will make mad strides just like his hops.His hands are much better than Cato and he is a helluva board man.It would be a steal if they could acquire this guy for what they are talking about.Just my opinion....peace
    SS,
    Since you are in the bay area and have a chance to check out Jamison first hand,lets hear the breakdown on him(when you can get around to it)I always thought he was overrated coming out and would not only have problems getting his shot off in the NBA,but can't face up and doesn't have a j.I hope I am proved wrong. peace bro HH
    I know you covered most of this,but anything
    else would be helpful.....I know allllllll about John Starks and I'd take him if we were to contend soon....tenacious player!great D...You know that is what goes the furthest towards a title thus one of the reasons for my feelings about Ratliff.

    [This message has been edited by Hardwood Hammer (edited December 13, 1999).]
     
  6. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 1999
    Messages:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    253
    HH,

    You described pretty much the Rockets' dream in your description of Ratliff. However, are you sure he's the same player as he used to be? He's been on the IL for a while. I think he's on there because of an ankle injury, but someone on this board also said he had bad knees. If I'm CD (which I am definitely not), I would think real hard before trading for an injury proned, seven million a year player signed through 2003 even if I don't have to give up that much in terms of talent.

    Additionally, I'm sure you have good reason for labeling Ratliff a "helluva board man." However, his stats really aren't that impressive in that area and that is where I feel we are really going to be hurting with Chuck gone and Hakeem close to retirement. He only averaged 6.7 boards a game in his last full lengthed season (1998) and that's what he's averaging this season, though it's just seven games for him.

    All in all, though, if he is still the player that you described, I would jump on the trade before Philly changed their minds!.......not that it's even on the table.

    [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited December 14, 1999).]
     
  7. Scarface

    Scarface Supremely FocASSed
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 1999
    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes Received:
    839
    Sir he was overrated just as Elton Brand was these guys put up blue-collar numbers which are nice for a late first round pick but no for a 1-5 pick in the draft. Twan's game coming out of college was a post up game however he had the body of a 3, There is no way in hell that given the pounding he will take in the NBA he will last more than 5 years as a low post player unless he pulls a Shawn Kemp. Lets face it the only reason Twan even scores is because he is their only threat down-low, TC is too old, Mill's shot is slipping as of late Starks is starting to slow down, MMMMMMookie was a stupid trade, so they are left with Caffey, Twan and Vonteego as their scorers as of late. He had bust written all over him when he was drafted and most GM's had been wispering 2nd round about Jammison. Athleticism is what the NBA looks at and defencisive ability, Carter was the second man in college but it was plain and clear that he would be the better NBA player(I didn't think he would be THIS good but I knew Carter to be the better player) quite frankly you can USUALLY, not always but usually spot a college player. Although I have been wrong on occasion I have been right many more times than wrong in evaluating talent. Jamison is not untouchable, and he would be a very nice pickup for an already good team, however he would not help the Rockets much if he were aquired at this point since his game is no better than Carlos Rogers.

    ------------------
    "We need to fockass".....Dream back in the day
     
  8. sir scarvajal

    sir scarvajal Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    0
    Scareface, I agree with much of what you said, the same is true for LJ, Corless (not having the size to dominate like they could in college) in addition to Brand and Jamison. But I am not looking for a dominant inside player. And even if they aren't as good as they were in college, I would love to have a Brand or Corless or Jamision on my team. Winners and potential fine role players. I am looking for players to surround a guard lead team, not a #1 option down low. For all the reasons I dicussed above I would consider getting Jamison, even at the loss of Mobley (who I really like in confidence and game).
     
  9. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    12,234
    Likes Received:
    13,142
    Oakdogg,
    Ratliff,when in Detroit didn't get the playing time of a full time starter.Williams was there.(correct me if I'm wrong)I think you are right about it being an ankle this year.This being said he seems to be turning the corner and is only about 25 or 26.I think,if healthy he is a bargain at 7mil./yr.for the life of that contract.Keeping in mind he is a 4 and to get that kind of defensive prescence from that spot is HUGE.Let me know about those rebounds per min.,I'm really curious now.I am under the impression that he can be had,not just speculating.Talk to me Oak HH

    [This message has been edited by Hardwood Hammer (edited December 14, 1999).]
     
  10. bballfanatic

    bballfanatic Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 1999
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    1
    This Rockets team definitely needs a big power forward that is GREAT at defense. Remember OT. Use that prototype.

    If Ratliff is injured I sure don't want him. We have had enough injuries for the next century!
     
  11. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    12,234
    Likes Received:
    13,142
    BBfan,Ratliff will be fine.It's not the kind of injury to linger.That much I remember.We need him in a big way.We have the ammo,now lets pull the trigger.
     
  12. sir scarvajal

    sir scarvajal Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well HH, I don't really watch the Warriors much. Starks has played very well for them the last 2 years (despite the low FG%), the Rockets might have contended last year if we had him, oh well we will never know for sure. At this point I don't think he would help, we need Anderson and our young guys to develop now. As for Jamison, he was no doubt the better college player than Carter, so I don't know how anyone can say he was overrated coming out. But he is a tweener though, and Carter's skills seem much more suited for the NBA and thus he is the far better NBA player (again this wasn't true for college).

    I would rather have Jamison than Ratliff. Ratliff is 3 years older and has 4 more years of NBA wear and tear I believe. The signs of injury are a concern especially when we want to acquire guys now that will hit their peak in 4-5 years. I think ya'll are way to hard on Jamison. Not saying he will be a Pippen but Pippen couldn't shoot much his first couple of years in the league either and in fact their statistics are near mirror images their 1st 2 years. Jamison is already one of the better rebounding 3's in the league (and better than Ratliff who plays the 4), knowing the Rockets history it would be really handy having the extra board help from the smaller positions. He would help us immensely in rebounding, athleticism and quickness around the basket (he has got that Ceballos/Worthy quickness where he just seems a set ahead of the shot blockers around the hoop), and that is the direction I feel we need to take. The Rocket guards will carry the O in the future, we need to surround them with guys with these other qualities around them (guys that can finish when the guards break down opponents D and create lanes, guys who are athletic on D and the glass). I don't think Jamison will ever be a dominant guy offensively (which GS needs and expected from him), but he could be a heck of a role player with a lot of needed intabgibles.
     
  13. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 1999
    Messages:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    253
    Hardwood,

    Here are some stats I got for Ratliff's career from nba.com. Ratliff was a starter for all three of the years listed. I also thought it would be interesting to see how our current guys' stats measure up if their numbers were averaged out at thirty minutes a game, and for kicks, I thought it would be fun to throw Hakeem's rookie year in there for comparison.

    Player MPG RPG FG% BPG SPG TO/G APG PPG

    Ratliff
    97-98 29.8 6.7 0.513 3.15 0.61 1.4 0.7 9.9
    98-99 32.5 8.1 0.47 2.98 0.9 1.8 0.6 11.2
    99-00 33.4 6.7 0.381 2.57 0.57 2 0.7 10.7
    Career 23.8 5.4 0.507 2.25 0.5 1.2 0.4 7.7
    Playoff 20.5 5 0.489 2 0.55 0.9 0.6 5.4

    Cato 30 6.83 48.72 2.2 0.84 1.67 0.2 9.84
    Thomas 30 7.09 39.71 0.61 0.38 2.26 0.44 10
    TMass. 30 7.43 44.44 1.38 0.83 2.48 0.83 11.17
    Hamilton 30 10.44 50 2 ,44 3.11 1.78 12.66
    Rogers 30 8.46 54.31 0.92 ,54 2.36 0.92 10.66

    Olajuwan 35.5 11.9 0.538 2.68 1.21 2.9 1.4 20.6

    Stats don't tell even close to the whole story, but it's kind of interesting anyway. 8 boards a game is pretty good from Ratliff, and that shot blocking is real impressive - of course, that's what he's known for. One question: since the Rockets would get him mainly for his defense, isn't he a little light to bang with the big boys (Webber, Malone, Kemp) at 225?

    It's probably all a moot point anyway. I have to agree with dreamshake (and he lives in Philly) in his doubt that Larry Brown would be looking to get rid of Ratliff, especially for the players that we are talking about. Besides, I liked what I saw of Kenny Thomas for the first time (I don't get the games at school). Perhaps he can beef up and be our PF for the future.

    [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited December 15, 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited December 15, 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited December 15, 1999).]
     
  14. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    12,234
    Likes Received:
    13,142
    Thanks Oak.
     
  15. Francis3

    Francis3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 1999
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    3
    We need a power forward realllllly bad. We dont have a true power forward with MASSENBURG out.
     
  16. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    12,234
    Likes Received:
    13,142
    Francis3,
    How does Theo sound now?
    Just rappin now,but who would you like to see the Rockets go after?Lets hear a few names........I'm not starting rumours we're just talking.

    [This message has been edited by Hardwood Hammer (edited December 16, 1999).]
     
  17. Francis3

    Francis3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 1999
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    3
    Theo Ratliff is a nice player, gets rebounds and has good defense. I would like to have him here but I dont think Ratliff will get traded.

    Name some Power Forwards for me and I will tell you which ones are good.

    The type of power forward i want is a player that can REBOUND. Really well. Get block shots and have good defense plus put up about 10 points a night. ( That fits probably the description of Ratliff) [​IMG]

    I would also like the power forward to be a player that knows what it takes to win and is not very young but not very old.

    Isnt Anthony Mason on the trading block? I heard a rumor of Robert Horry for Mason.
     
  18. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,497
    Likes Received:
    56,089
    Popeye

    i didn't think I would be responding to this fantasy bball thread until i read your post. Out of your three, Maurice Taylor is who I'd go for. But damn, he is not worth the $9m that Falk is asking. gimme a break.

    So, I didn't think we had a trade option before free agency. I agree with you that probably more than any other situation this season, the clippers are desparate to trade this guy.....unless somehow Odom convinces him to stay and the Clippers get real and pay him $7m base...and Falk accepts that, MT is gone.

    My question about your scenario: what does Tmass's low pay have to do with matching trade value in Maurice's 3rd year rookie scale price tag...I think you are confusing that with sign-n-trade scenarios.

    I ask this because IMHO I don't think the Clips are stupid enough (conservatively speaking from past performance) to trade their PF for none in return when the want Odom doing the Jalen Rose thing and more. I think TMass is key to the trade, as long as it is BEFORE FREE AGENCY. Hell, don't Bullard, Mack and TMass by themselves match Taylors CURRENT salary.

    what am i missing here about your salary matching issues concerning TMass. I want TMass to stay, but I want Taylor too. I think the trade must include a PF.
     
  19. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    12,234
    Likes Received:
    13,142
    Heypartner,
    I posted this "fantasy basketball post" as you call it,to talk about the need for a power foward,which would improve our team. and contrary to what you might believe bro,Popeye is NOT the only one who knows a little about the going ons behind the scenes.
    I don't claim to know anywhere near as much about what's happening as him,but it is rude and presumptious for you to assume that the rest of us don't know sh*t. HH

    [This message has been edited by Hardwood Hammer (edited December 16, 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by Hardwood Hammer (edited December 16, 1999).]
     
  20. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    12,234
    Likes Received:
    13,142
    Skywalker3,
    Mason is apparently staying put.Now here's a list of PF's.Some are untouchable and some are probably not what we're looking for but here goes:
    Allen Henderson
    P.J.Brown
    Bo Outlaw
    Gary Trent
    Brian Grant
    Samaki Walker
    Jelani McCoy
    Marcus Camby

    Talk to me superstar

    If it can go through I believe Ratliff is the perfect fit. HH


    [This message has been edited by Hardwood Hammer (edited December 16, 1999).]
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now