I am NOT judging Outlaw! God, through his word has already judged and condemmned homosexual acts. I cannot force outlaw or anybody else to follow God's law. All I can do is to inform him that God doesn't condone it and that there is help available. What he does from now is entirely up to him. Yes I do believe in salvation by faith alone, but the type of ministries that I alluded to would tell one the same thing. ------------------
steve francis: With all due respect, God didn't say anything. The Bible says some things but God said it only if you believe it and many of us here do not. I've studied it maybe more than you have and "God" also said something else: "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Trying to convert those who wish not to be converted is an insult to them and placing a judgement on their lives that is sinful by your definitions. As DREAMer has eloquently put it, man is imperfect. We all are. Work on yourself and set an example. It is far more effective than a post on a BBS and far less arrogant. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
Oh, and for you DREAMers and Jeffs jumping in to protect my outlaw by saying man is imperfect. Outlaw in NOT imperfect...I actually think his butt is the most perfect thing I have ever dreamed about.<font color="f7f7f7"> [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited September 21, 2000).]
steve francis, I would like to know why you have avoided everyone of my other points, besides judgement? Besides, by only telling the "homosexual sinner" on this board to repent, you are judging him, because you are disregarding every other sin as not worthy of your time. You have made a decision to single out one sin, and ignore the others. Can you please tell me why that is? If you want to stop sin, which you can't, why not stop all sin, why pick and choose. All sin is the same. And, God has not judged him or anyother person. That time will come when we all are before Him. I think it is highly unappropriate to tell a gay person what you have said in this type of medium. What you have done is cause more negativity to be associated with Christianity than any good you may have thought you were doing. You have set a poor example of how a Christian should act, and not just to me but to people who are not Christians, and with you help never will be. You just can't come out and tell someone they shouldn't be doing what they are doing. That just causes that person to react defensively and ignore what you are trying to say, as well as stir up the ire of others who you were not addressing. Ugh, I am getting frustrated. I just think your tactics are the same "scare" tactics that "churches", "priests", "ministers", and "pastors" have been using for years. Christianity is not about fear. It's not about fear of going to Hell or any other consequence of sin. It is about accepting the Truth. It's about believing in the teachings of the Old and New Testament and putting them to use in your own life. I know it's should be a Christians duty to spread the Word of God, but man if you do it poorly you are hurting the very thing you are trying to help. It's worse than doing nothing at all. If what you have said has somehow caused some number of people say 4 or 5 to reject Christianity, because of the hypocritical nature exuded by so many Christians, then aren't you in actuality doing Satan's work? Find what you do well and do that. Or learn how to communicate your point in a manner that spurs discussion not disgust. I'm finished with this topic, unless you would like to discuss some of the other points I made. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page
Ugh, Dreamer, i don't think outlaw needs to be defended here. Don't make this a defense of Christianity. You are starting to make this thread your agenda. This thread is about the glory of being gay...nothing else! Just like the swimsuit issues were about the glory of being heterosexual. Start a new thread man...have the guts to write a title that says: "Christianity says Homosexuals belong" then go to town....I'll back you there....but not here.
heypartner, So, we meet again (Western music playing at high noon) (see the "Ethics, etc" thread) I started out to defend outlaw, partially. But, I've gotten irritated with sf's lack of discussion on my points. What I'm really trying to do is three-fold. Protect the ideals of Christianity, watch outlaw's back, and try to help sf understand what he needs to do in order to improve himself. If I'm not doing a good job, I apologize. But, hey I'm not breaking any laws so leave me alone. Besides, I said in my last post that it was my last post on the topic unless sf wanted to discuss things more indepth. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited September 21, 2000).]
Wow, you guys are all so sweet. I am genuinely touched by all your support. Thank you. But steve is entitled to his beliefs and to his credit, he stated them in a civilized manner. I was raised Catholic so I am quite used to being told to repent my sexuality, which was the main reason I became an atheist. heypartner, you need to get better dreams!
I'm not a particularly pious individual, but I'm pretty sure the ten commandments don't include "Thou shalt not be gay." ------------------ My dream job is to be a Houston Rockets towel-boy.
After thinking about the commandments for a while, isn't one of them, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ass" ? I guess that coule be sort of gay, depending on who your neighbour is. ------------------ My dream job is to be a Houston Rockets towel-boy. [This message has been edited by fadeaway (edited September 21, 2000).]
HOOP-T >> I though it said something along the lines of, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, ox or ass." I'm almost sure it went something like that. ------------------ My dream job is to be a Houston Rockets towel-boy.
mc mark, The Bible specifically says in Leviticus 18:22 (King James Version) It's in the context of God telling man not to: sleep with another man's wife, not to have sex with animals, not to sleep with ("uncover the nakedness") a mother and her daughter, or your daugther in law, or your aunt, or your sister, or your parents, or even a woman on her period. But, a big misconception that many many Christians make is that God wants homosexuals to be punished or singled out. That specific quote is from the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Jesus died for all sins and therefore paid the price for them. Jesus taught about forgiveness not punishment. The differences in the teachings of the Old Testament and the New Testament are hard for non-Christians to understand, and well just as hard for many Christians. To put it in a nutshell, the OT is about a time before God's gift of forgiveness (Jesus), and the NT is about the time afterward. But, again as I've been saying for YEARS now, this particular sin named in the Bible is no different than any other sin. No different than: lying, stealing, taking the Lord's name in vain, adultery, or any other sin named in the Bible. All sins are the same. We all sin. Just because (in my universe) outlaw's sin is homosexuality doesn't mean he's any worse of better of a human being than myself, because I sure as hell have sinned. Outlaw is the same as me and as everyone else, because no man is perfect and we've all sinned. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited September 21, 2000).]
Yes that is in the book of Leviticus (Old Testament), which also says: don't eat pigs or rabbits (LEV 11:4) don't eat shrimp, lobsters, crabs (LEV 11:9) don't put any tattoos on your body (LEV 19:28) "If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death." (LEV 20:9) "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." (LEV 20:10) "If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people." (LEV 20:18) "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard" (LEV 19:27)
outlaw: Amen. Personally, I believe in the Bible as a good focus point for the way that people should live in general, the Golden Rule, the Ten Commandments, etc. I'm just wondering how many of the Christians out there would react to me coming out with this book that I've ghost written for God through his talking to me. I'm guessing that most people would call me a crackpot. That's what I think of the Bible. Most of it is just the rules and regulations of the time that have obviously changed over the course of time. ------------------ Cheerleaders are just dancers who've gone r****ded. visit www.swirve.com
So much for the image of Jesus in a pinstripe suit and power tie "doing lunch" and chatting on the cell phone. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
Man, I've slept in the same bed as a man - just like I have with a woman (I cannot control the way I lie when I am sleeping). I am screwed! outlaw, I guess we'll be staying together for eternity... ------------------ Talking to a dead hare about art
pardner, This is not the same as the Spears vs Kournikova thread. That was about (mostly) grown men lusting after teenage girls - and that is just plain perverse. This thread is far superior to the other. Only 13 more posts and this will have surpassed the other! ------------------ Talking to a dead hare about art [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited September 21, 2000).]
Hey rimmy. Hell looks like a pretty fun place on South Park (if you didn't see the episode, the only people in heaven are Mormons)
