Whispers and Fantasies The season is less than a dozen games old for the teams and there are some stirrings among the natives. Joe Smith may have got a contract, but friends, the moving van business is still going to get brisk in a lot of metro areas. Sprewell: He got in trouble with the league for spouting his desire publicly that he wants his bud C Dub to come to New York. It will never happen. Sorry, Spree but it is more likely that you will move before C Dub wears the knickerbockers. Rumor has it that moving Sprewell to the Kngs has not only been explored recently, but as Sprewell voicing his dissatisfaction in Gotham City increases (in direct inverse proportion to his scoring numbers) the argument to keep him is getting awfully thin. A trade putting Chris and Spree together would surely cement Chris Webber's resigning deal, simply because it will show the King's mean to make a sizable effort to advance in the standings AND will demonstrate to what lengths they will go to appease Dub's wishes. Now who do they use to get him??? This is almost guaranteed to be a three-way trade. Atlanta may be interested, they need help and fast. Their best bargaining chip is Mutumbo. Van Gundy would sell his brother for that swatter. For a straight up deal it would have to involve Divac. Personally I have less faith in V. Divac's talent (and therefore team worth) than some sports "authorities". I would be more worried about what affect Divac leaving would have on someone like young Stojakovic. Big Man Samurai Pollard has shown some promise of late, but is he worth enough to the Knicks to send Sprewell packing? Kevin Garnett: Despite the strong, positive attitude he usually portrays when publicly discussing B-Ball, he is not very happy these days. It is almost too easy to say this Joe Smith thing is a "no problem". As a matter of fact if you do a quick survey of most knowledgeable basketball people they will tell you that IT IS A PROBLEM. The aftermath may be felt for a long while. KG's contract handcuffs a lot of future signing deals. The loss of the draft for five years will put a real crimp in the ability to infuse new blood. Free agency is not exactly beating down Minnesota's (low-key, small-town atmosphere doors). Most importantly the final decision on who to blame for this fiasco may rest on some shoulders that will be reluctant to take that blame. McHale is on "leave" right now. Some say digesting the bitter pill of "life after basketball". McHale's first hand pick as coach is Flip Saunders … who needs (and insiders mean NEED, when they say need) McHale's presence, advice, and … let's call it … support, when it comes to dealing with the backroom pressures of operating a successful basketball team. McHale's first hand pick as floor general is Kevin Garnett, and that responsibility goes both ways too. McHale harnessed Garnett with the responsibility of adding life and excitement to the LimpPuppies franchise. Garnett relies on McHale's ability to keep the organization focused on supplying all the ingredients for a competitive and challenging team. Both of those relationships are in jeopardy right now. If McHale takes the brunt of the league punitive action (suspension,fine,etc…) he will quit. Solution: The boldest is to trade KG. As noted he will likely go if McHale goes. The Timberwolves will ask and get a lot of concessions when that bidding war starts. Including draft picks to replenish their lost choices. They will be able to fill some considerable spots with $22 Million dollars. KG on the other hand may start looking at life as a sports star with a renewed focus on quality organizations that also offer a real chance at the brass ring. I would not count out the Rockets if that scenario was being played. Forston and Jamison: Both of these guys are locked into a team that is strong at the four, but weak everywhere else. The unfortunate thing is one of them has to go. Fortson can't for a while yet due to trade restrictions, so that means Jamison is the most likely guy if an immediate move is made. Despite NO TRADE ever coming together for Jamison this past summer, I have been told that he was offered by the Warriors attempting to broaden their team and sought out by a number of excellent teams. Including the Rockets. (I know, they deny ever seeking a Jamison trade for …. But so what, the boys deny the existence of any communication right up to the announcemnent of the players involved). I will safely hedge this bet and say that one of these guys is gone before the allstar break, but most assuredly one of them will be gone shortly after the December date. Iverson: Throughout last year and as a preamble to this year's opening gun, it was rumored that Iverson and Brown would not be able to mend any fences and Bad Boy was going to be traded forthwith. Well, it's amazing how much winning will dampen the spirits of the most ardent I-Man haters. His new found team concept and the ability of the team that he is surrounded by to play "all-guts and no-glory" basketball has made believers of almost everyone. If they leave this track or injuries start to force Iverson to carry this team as in previous seasons, that may change. But for now, I wouldn't bet on a trade anytime soon. Hakeem and Cato: The Dreamster seems to be enjoying himself. That was probably the biggest hurdle he had to face this year. I for one still do not completely rule out the possibility of a trade, but it is getting more unlikely every game. If anything, it makes it that much more obvious that although we need Cato in the lineup, especially against unrelenting inside attacks, we are still making a good showing against most teams. The emergence of Collier and the steady hand and quick(er?) moves by Hakeem is not making us as reliant on Cato's presence as most postulated earlier this summer. I will make a stand here now and say that we still should trade Cato's butt, BYC and all, at the first opportunity. Even if it involves a painful decision on whether Carlos, Walt or KT should accompanying him. All three of these guys have contributed beyond expectations this year, especially KT. But Cato deprives us of a presence that I am sad to say, I doubt he will ever accomplish. Not here. Not with this team. I heard of a couple of offers involving Cato right up until his injury. One I know for certain was an earnest bid from Pat Riley. New York has asked for audience on an offer. To date RT,CD and company have held steadfast. Injuries and inconsistencies will make up some minds for us soon I fear. Fantasy Trade Deal of the First Twenty-Five Games of the Season Scenario: 1. Hakeem requests a trade to Vancouver. Rockets agree to trade. 2. Cato has excellent recovery from injury and plays to a 10 ppg and 10 rebound level in first several games back. 3. Clippers remain in limbo. Despite an influx of young talent they remain not quite good enough except for another subpar year. But not yet bad enough to shoot in the head. 4. Coming up just short of enough wins, the Grizzlies realize they need a good center, and preferably a class act veteran that will bring in the corporate sponsors that they need to stay alive financially. Hakeem to the Grizzlies Cato to the Clippers Walt Williams to the Clippers Draft Pick: 1 First Round to Grizzlies Draft Pick: 1 Second Round to Clippers Othella Harrington to the Clippers Shareef Abdur-Rahim to the Rockets Bryant Reeves to the Rockets Draft Pick: 1 Second Round to the Rockets Michael Olowokandi to the Rockets Ty Nesby to the Grizzlies Sean Rooks to the Grizzlies Have fun and enjoy the game. Personally I hope everyone (well, almost everyone) stays put in Rocketland this year!
I could see Spree being dealt and totally agree that Jamison will probably be dealt, but don't see many of the other proposals happening. There is no way KG is going anywhere this season or in the years to come. That must have been the wind whispering on that rumor. Joe Smith is back in the fold which will appease KG for this year. What happens a few years down the line, who knows, but I don't see him going anywhere for awhile. Nor do I believe Hakeem will be dealt. He started the season a Rocket and I think management would be doing him and the fans an injustice by dealing him now. They had their chance and decided to stick to their guns. A wise choice I believe. Cato, on the other hand, had better step up to the plate when he comes back. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if he were traded at any point this season. The hardest part will be finding a taker since the season is rolling. I think we had our chance in the offseason with him and possibly blew it. I like Cato and think he has alot to offer this organization, but he has to WANT to offer it. As for your 25 game fantasy trade, I like it, except the part where we give up Hakeem and get "Buckshot" Reeves. We've already got one guy, Collier that I think can play on his level and possibly higher. I also don't like his salary, but thats just my opinion. ------------------ Only in America....do people order double cheeseburgers, large fries, and a diet coke.
My fantasy deal would be signing Stais Boseman and keeping everyone else. I just feel Stais was good enough to make the team. Even though he would be buried on the bench he deserves a spot on the roster. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams fan club. Web site coming soon atheistalliance.org
The Clippers are NOT trading anyone. They are actually getting a nice chemistry with the current roster. Gentry is doing a very nice job with this young team. I agree, Cato should be traded as soon as he comes back. There are many teams that would love to have his "potential." (which is all he will ever amount to) The Knicks, Heat, Suns come to mind as needing a Center. I can't see Jamison or Fortson being traded. Dampier is having a nice season after his surgery. Mookie has missed some time with minor things. Sura is ready to start playing. The Warriors are a Draft away from being a very nice team. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
Dean, my fantasy deal is to sign Axel Dench and keep everyone else. There's no place for Stais here, but that Dench can shove some guys around, grab a few boards, and make a few shots! ------------------
pops-With the recent Garnett/Wally argument, any rumors of saying goodbye to Wally? (talk about an ideal "Rudy" player). Any word on what GS is asking for Jamison/Fortson, like another big man? a shooter at the 3? What is the Rockets brass opinion of Collier? Are they saying "I told you so." and expect this type of production the rest of the season or are they saying "Wow, I never knew he'd be performing that well!" Wow, Riles wants Cato? What in the world could he offer? Hardaway, Mason Rasta and EJ are staying, what do they have, Marjele, Ricky Davis, and Anthony Carter? I'd rather not trade Hakeem, but if push comes to shove, I'll take Reef, Kandi, and Reeves for Hakeem, Cato, and Walt. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
Oily ... I know you've earned respect on this board, but whoever's feeding you Golden State information is blowing smoke out of his ass (and yours). Fortson and Jamison were incompatible for the first two games of the year. Since Cowens figured out how to run some plays for Antawn, he's averaged 25.7 ppg (without, I might add, interfering with Fortson's string of double-doubles). Neither one of those two is going anywhere this year (particularly with Fortson's foot injury). If you'd like to maintain blind faith in your sources, please let me know how much money you'd like to put behind your statement that one of the two will be gone by the February trade deadline. I wouldn't mind having a little spare cash heading toward April 15. ------------------
ojopadre, Entertaining as always. Scratch that - maybe more interesting, because it's been too long in coming. You've been holding back! But come clean: you're whole motivation is to exile your favorite players, WW and Cato, to the Clips. ------------------
Incidentally, the Oily One's analysis of the Garnett situation is deep in terms of office politics, but shallow in terms of hoops sense. Why should the Wolves trade KG just to get some draft picks? He's one of the top 10 (probably top 5) players in the game. You could draft high in the lottery for five straight years and probably not get a player close to his talent -- in fact, I think the Wolves did precisely that before '95. To make a KG trade anywhere near worthwhile to Minnesota, they'd have to receive a young All-Star, multiple 1st-round picks, and enough other talent to get up to KG's $22M salary. What team could give all that up and still "offer a real chance at the brass ring" for Garnett? My guess is none. ------------------
i dont agree on cato being traded immediately. he has got alot of potential(I bet you guys are sick of hearing me use that word in the same sentence as Cato), but thats what i think. he is tall, athletic, strong, and has a raw offensive game. He's already a excellent defensive player. Against the hornets, DC was tearing us apart in the third and hakeem couldnt do anything about it, cato would have been there knocking the shot into the third row of the stands.
That's just it. Sure, Cato has plenty of "potential"; I don't think very many people will argue too much with that. However, Cato has never done, and still isn't doing, a good enough job of putting forth the effort that is necessary to attain that potential. I think that is a major reason why so many people, including myself, are fed up with the guy. The Rockets sank a six-year, $42 million contract into this guy...that's a lot of money. And since Cato has already had several years' experience of NBA action, there is doubt as to whether Cato will ever have the heart necessary in order to be the best that he can be. I am this close (visualize 2 of my fingers spaced a millimeter apart) to agreeing with oeilpere and others that Cato should be traded ASAP once he recovers from his injury. (I'd rather keep the Wiz, though.) Cato is capable of bringing a lot more than he has been bringing to this team....so he has got to get his act together if he's going to remain a Rocket. ------------------
I was hoping for something in the fantasy trade category like sending Mo and Los to Detroit (they can go home: Mo gets big $$ next year, lives near/with his new baby, etc.); JYD and a draft pick and salary-cap-trade-garbage to Orlando (that team's sucking for rebounds); Mike Miller to Golden State (that team needs a real small forward who's got skilz); and Antawn Jamison to us. But, then, why wouldn't Orlando and Golden State just trade straight up? I don't see Jamison staying in Golden State. Cowens can make two squares fit in round holes long enough, but they're both more comfortable at the 4. It's like the Chicago fiasco. Brand and Fizer are basically the same player. I'd love to get Jamison on this team, and yet, I already feel like a sucker because Oeilpere ALWAYS STARTS THESE DAMNED SPECULATION POSTS then sits back smiling as they grow, grow, grow. ------------------
Oilepere: these whispers and fantasys sound so much more sexy over here in the nba dish. A Jamison deal sounds down-right sensual ------------------
I guess I'm old-fashioned. I thought scoring a consistent 20+ ppg on roughly 50% shooting WAS a skill, and a rare & important one at that. Jamison and Fortson are far from the same player. Jamison's game is quickness; Fortson's is strength. And though word hasn't gotten around about it yet, Jamison is a much better outside shooter (40% on three-pointers before last night, with more 3s already this year than in his entire 1st two years). In other words, Jamison is turning into a true SF (last night, with Fortson hurt, Adam Keefe started at PF). ------------------ [This message has been edited by Swopa (edited November 18, 2000).]
Item #1 Please re-read the post. This is speculation. The obvious clue is in realizing that none of these trades have occurred yet. Item #2 "There is no way KG is going anywhere this season or in the years to come. That must have been the wind whispering on that rumor. Joe Smith is back in the fold which will appease KG for this year. The KG thing was speculation as noted. Do not for a minute suggest that any player, star or not, will not be traded when the time comes. The premise is, if Kevin McHale goes, that melts a lot out of the argument that this franchise will continue to head in the direction it should. Joe Smith is nothing. Sorry,folks but he is NOT an integral part of this team. Admittedly he was very likely spoken to by KG and others, and convinced to stay. But they have to grow as a team. If it looks like this is going to be another "also ran" season they have to make a move. They must either deal with picking up draft choices ... (The only way to get them is by trading. Last time I looked, other franchises were interested in only one player, KG.) ... or, they start loading up on some free agents ... (Historically, they have not attracted a lot of Free Agents.) There is just not a lot of money left after paying someone 22 Million. So please do not say that it will never happen. Item #3 "The Clippers are NOT trading anyone. They are actually getting a nice chemistry with the current roster. Gentry is doing a very nice job with this young team." Admittedly, they are doing okay, for a Clipper team. But the biggest set back they have is a lack of leadership and veterans with court savy. Suggesting they are ready to take it up another step, because they have some exciting young players is premature. Miles needs a lot of patient work. Odom needs some go-to guys. They all need to be surrounded by some solid journeymen. Item #4 "whoever's feeding you Golden State information is blowing smoke out of his ass (and yours)" Well, it didn't feel drafty back there, so it must have been his ass. But then maybe all anyone has to do is read the paper and the wires or use some common sense. All whispers or rumor do is point in a direction they don't tell the story. In this case, the direction appears obvious. Golden State is slated to rank where this season? Despite excellent efforts by both Jamison and Fortson the Warriors WILL likely NOT improve much (if any) this year. One of the earliest indications are that the "New York Experiment" of having too many talented guys in the forward positions and not enough support in the center and backcourt does not win games. Answer me this: If the Houston Rockets had brought in Fortson, or Stromile, or J.O'Neal would Maurice Taylor have signed? If they had signed Taylor, then afterwards brought one of these guys on board, would MoTay have been happy? Item #5 "I was hoping for something in the fantasy trade category like sending Mo and Los to Detroit (they can go home: Mo gets big $$ next year, lives near/with his new baby, etc.)" That is probably closer to the direction that Maurice will take at the end of this season. But for now, he cannot be traded for a while, and frankly trading him at anytime would not be advanatgeous for us. First, we need him in our offense. Second, his paycheck is obscenely low and we would not get a comparable player in return. Third, it is much too early to be talking of trading our starting power forward, despite KT's game. Fourth, having him sign a lower than deserved contract and then trading him is not even close to what CD and the Rockets attempt to portray as far as "class acts" go. I could go on. But MoTay isn't going anywhere this year. Item #6 " Jamison and Fortson are far from the same player. Jamison's game is quickness; Fortson's is strength. " I agree wholehreartedly. The problem is they both have to co-exist on the team and both have to get their touches. Up to this point, thay have been used to play the same iunside attack game and it's been crowded in there. Item #7 "Jamison is turning into a true SF (last night, with Fortson hurt, Adam Keefe started at PF)." Again, I agree. Splitting their duties and making each play a different game will save this team with having to face any immediate roster changes. You cannot run inside plays for two very talented forwards, and expect both to happy. Drawing up a game plan using Jamison more outside and letting Fortson bang and tussle inside seems like an excellent compromise. Hope they both like it. We'll see when Danny gets back.
I knew the instant the words "trade" & "Jamison" showed up in the same post, Swopa would post within hours. It was true. Here's my take's on one part of this post. ***Sprewell to Kings: Kings have BYC players making trades difficult. The best I could do was Mutombo to the Knicks, Spree to SACtown & Chris Childs to the Hawks, Vlade & Peja to the Hawks. Knicks lineup: 5) Mutombo/Longley/Knight 4) Thomas/Camby 3) Rice/LJ 2) Houston/Postel 1) Ward/Strickland Hawks lineup 5) Divac/Lorenzen Wright 4) Henderson/Bowdler/McLeod 3) Peja/Chris Crawford/Mottola 2) Jimmy Jackson/ DerMarr 1) Childs/Jason Terry/Maloney Kings lineup: 5) Pollard/Funderburke/ Jabari 4) Webber/Funderburke/Turkoglu 3) Sprewell/Anderson/Turkoglu 2) Christie/Barry 1) JDubb/Jackson/Martin On paper, this seems to benefit all concerned. Everybody loses something, but there is a net gain at the most troubled spot(s). ------------------ GATER
GATER, somebody's got to provide the straight scoop about the Warriors around here, and nip these misguided threads in the bud. Once I didn't catch one until it was a couple days old, and we all know what that turned into. ------------------
Oeilpere, If the fantasy deal were to come true, would the Rockets keep the overpriced Reeves or would they look into trading him? It doesn't seem that he would be the ideal center for our new offensive game style. Some posters during the off season speculated about acquiring Camby from the Knicks. In your opinion, could that happen or would the Rockets even want him? He sure has been scarfing down the rebounds & putting up the points when he gets enough touches. What do you think? ------------------
Judging from the standards he uses in the rest of the trade, I think oeilpere expects to move Big Country on to the Raptors in exchange for Vince Carter. The Raptors need a big body at center, y'know. ------------------
