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When was the last time you saw harden...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SWTsig, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Which isn't a Harden-centric issue right? Even though it's 2019, every championship team in the NBA has had a coach that a player listens to and didn't have to worry about job security. With the exception of "coach" Ty Lue, when was the last time a coach got fired after he led his team to a championship? Hardly ever because that coach got his best players to buy into what he was selling. D'Antoni appeared to have been that coach when he made James into a badass point guard but it's apparent he doesn't give a f*ck about trying new things or getting creative anymore.

    Could Harden be, I guess, more "coachable" or more flexible? Sure he can and he's shown that he will adapt to whatever system coach wants him to be in. But the better question would be, does MDA have the testicular fortitude and want to push a new/better system?
     
  2. SWTsig

    SWTsig Contributing Member

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    You realize his usage rate is that high bc he demands it, right? That’s our offense BY DESIGN. And now you want to absolve him for “taking plays off” in the most critical post season moments?? That’s rich. If he’s being “used” too much than he needs to admit that his ISO, I RULE ALL brand of basketball won’t work.

    You can’t have it both ways. Either he’s the man like he demands all season or he isn’t and he needs to learn to play w others and actually show effort when the ball isn’t in his hands.
     
  3. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    Am I the only Rocket fan that likes Harden? Feels that way on here. Going to games is an entirely different story. Those fans love the man.
     
  4. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    People rather b**** about our best player than to demand more out of players 2-14, the coaches, the GM, the owner, etc.

    "You won one MVP and, after this season, have finished 2nd THREE other times James? Boy, if that tells me anything, it's that you've got a LONG way to go before you're an elite/franchise player. Also, let's put it on you for the Iso-heavy offense the team is running because it's not as if your whole team got decimated with injuries and you were left to shoulder the entire team for weeks on end. Or let's put it on you for wanting to play in this style because you're CLEARLY the coach of the team. I mean, a coach is the person who SHOULD be implementing the offensive system so you're the coach right?"
     
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  5. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Don't you think your best offensive player not participating in some of those - unless he's the one with the ball - has a lot to do with that?

    This is a pet peeve of mine, this idea that criticism of any kind = hate. Cause I think the truth is actual this, which is opposite of what you are saying. You are saying no matter what haters gonna hate. Whereas I think the truth is non-haters are going to say any criticism is hate.

    So question, if you are not a fan of Scottie Pippen or Tracy McGrady relative to their time with the Rockets, are you a hater?
     
  6. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    I don't really disagree with what you're saying, but the more I've listened to Morey and D'Antoni talk over the past couple of seasons, I've realized that it doesn't matter who the coach is. They are analytics-driven to the point that they identified Harden's ISO plays as the highest points-per-possession play that they can run, so that's what's going to happen.

    My argument would be that there's a point of diminishing returns on running one thing, so you need to run your second and third most effective plays more often. Especially in the playoffs. We know D'Antoni doesn't trust anyone past #7 in his rotation and Harden doesn't seem to either, hence it's a Morey problem.
     
  7. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    That's just not true. Harden gets covered full court (they know he wants the ball) that he tells his guys to push it and go 4v4. I've seen it dozens of time both live in the arena and on tv. Jalen and the other "experts" are filling in the blanks as to why he walks up the court. That **** is infuriating because all they would have to do is ask. But no, that requires effort and thought, spouting made up bullshit is easy.
     
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  8. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    No but I LOVE him. Dude reps H-TOWN hard and has always given this city everything he's got and more year after year. The "fans" who hate, they just nephews.
     
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  9. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    If the team needs to change its system/mindset to run a more movement-oriented offense next season it'll need two things: personnel and health. I have little doubt that Harden would buy into a system change to have more movement but if he's looking out at the team and sees nothing but injured players and/or G-League all-stars, he's not going to want to change the system that has generated an average of 58 wins the past 3 years. But if those are the players we're working with then the coach needs to step up and demand that from his players, job security be damned. It's not as if D'Antoni is shy from quitting his coaching job when things don't go his way so why stop now?
     
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  10. Denovo

    Denovo Member

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    Yea this is just false lol. His iso ball works. That’s been obvious considering how elite our offense is. NBA players aren’t robots. If harden could go at 100% for 48 minutes 82+ games a year he would. Fatigue sets in eventually. If Harden played the same exact way but had a lower usage rating. We would be fine.

    We have players with limited skill sets. Give him a player that averages 20+ that can create his own shot at will.

    Harden demanding high usage is fake news. This season his high usage was absolute needed due to injuries and he dragged us out the mud from a 14th seed to almost the 2nd seed. Harden had the second highest ppg in the playoffs behind Durant. He averaged 35ppg against golden state. If Chris Paul or even Capela played to the same level as last season. We would be discussing his performance against Toronto rn.
     
  11. jerryclark

    jerryclark Member

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    So many times we see other players on the team trying to run a fast break only for harden to hold his hand up like a crossing guard so he can reset as he walks up the court
     
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  12. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    For his usage rate to drop, he has to be willing to rest more and play more off the ball.
     
  13. Denovo

    Denovo Member

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    This is true. At the same time he needs healthy teammates that can produce when he’s not on the court. When Chris Paul could also take over a game we were fine. Harden could rest. His decline required Harden to do more in order for us to win so he did.
     
  14. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Is that a real question? Cause I do hate them both

    Rocket River
     
  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    You know they hate those fans around here
    becuase they show up late and leave early and eat popcorn with salt


    hell .. . DanAndToni could have played House and Faried more

    we needed more rebounds and defense

    Rocket River
     
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  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    The lazy guy that leads the league in minutes and getting fouled the past 5 years. Incredible how much Rockets fans can be so unhappy with an MVP candidate. Never seen it before.
     
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  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Yes, it's a real question. Why is it ok to "hate" on McGrady and not Harden?
     
  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    McGrady sucked and he bad mouths the Rockets all the time
    They want that 14th pick in the draft

    Rocket River
     
  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    When was the last time you saw Harden complain to the media?
    When was the last time you saw Harden sitting with a small injury?
    When was the last time you saw Harden getting worse at basketball?
    When was the last time you saw Harden was not in the MVP discussion?
    When was the last time you saw someone acquire a better player than James Harden?
    When was the last time you saw Harden lose a series in which his team were the favorites?
    When was the last time you saw Harden considering leaving his team and joining a more talented one?

    For the millionth time, Harden has flaws, like all the superstars who win titles have flaws. He can win it like other superstars with other superstars elsewhere, or we can put a better team around him, or we can end this project and wait for the likelihood we acquire a player who is better than a guy who has been in the MVP conversation for most of 5 consecutive years.
     
  20. Major

    Major Member

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    I think the Spurs game is relevant because it exposed the essence of Harden's issues. Chris Paul was brought here to provide leadership and fix that stuff - so it's relevant again if Paul is now saying "f this, I want out".

    He doesn't ruin it, but he doesn't enhance it. Superstars make life easier for the role players by causing teams to have to deal whatever the superstar is doing. Harden makes that super easy. Curry is obviously the opposite extreme of causing total chaos and creating open shots for everyone else, but other stars are somewhere in between. Harden is at the far extreme other end of the spectrum, and that's a very real problem. It's the reason why the role players never have been, and likely never will be, good enough - we have a system that makes life extremely difficult on them.
     

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