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What makes a good role player?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jVgOwnsYou, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. jVgOwnsYou

    jVgOwnsYou Contributing Member

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    Stars win games, we all know that, but solid role players are the key to championships. Rockets fans remember how vital players like Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, and Mario Elie were to the success of the championship teams of the 90s. We began to slip after trading away these great role players for star players like Charles Barkley.

    For more recent examples, Look at the championship teams of recent years and you will see teams that had some of the best role players in the league today. The Spurs have Bruce Bowen and RObert Horry. The Heat have Udonis Haslem, and the Pistons had Ben Wallace.

    So my question is what (in your opinion) makes a good role player? For me it's

    1.energy
    2.consistancy
    3.Clutchness
    4. good physical defense
    5. The ability to create possesions by taking charges, going after loose balls, and grabbing offensive rebounds
    6. competitve fire(or toughness)
    7. low turnovers
    8. smart passes (not necessarily an assist guy, but maybe a guy that makes the pass that creates the next pass that leads to a bucket)
    9. The ability to knock down open jumpers to space the floor for your stars.
    10. durability

    IMO we have one of the best role players in the league in Shane Battier. He does everything I mentioned in the list.

    Look at the numbers.
    The guy has more steals than turnovers and he plays starters minutes. His assist to turnover ratio is good. He guards the other teams best perimeter player night in and night out. He takes more charges than anyone in the league and he is great at getting to lose balls especially late in games. He is a great weak side help defender as evidenced by his 53 blocked shots. He is a very good offensive rebounder for his position. He is shooting the 3 well as of late and he is bringing intensity every single game.

    I know that sometimes the Battier for Gay trade looks bad, but it's not because Battier is not a good player. It's because Tmac misses too much time. Think next time before you complain about Shane.
     
  2. kwng

    kwng Member

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    Does role player need to pick up the slacks when the star players are off?
    I think they should.
     
  3. jVgOwnsYou

    jVgOwnsYou Contributing Member

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    Then you must not think Bruce Bowen, Haslem, or Ben wallace are worth anything.
     
  4. ClearSky

    ClearSky Member

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    IMO, a role player just need one thing then can makes he be a good/super role player, that is:

    he has a nickname which is "Microwave Oven"
     
  5. blender

    blender Member

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    There are a lot of good situational role players. They excel in certain aspects of the game but have obvious holes in others.

    Then there are role players who have the ability to "go beyond" their roles. These players offer a good balance of offense and defense. They are able to play competent defense individually and within the team. They are also enough of an offensive threat that if a defense slags off them to concentrate on covering the star players, they will punish their opponents.

    The player who comes closest to the ideal role player on this team is Luis Scola. We've seen what he can do offensively next to Yao and on his own, and we know the energy and competitiveness he brings to the game. And even if his shot isn't falling, he's out there hustling and taking charges like there's no tomorrow.
    He's still adjusting to the NBA and has some problems with consistency and defense, but I believe he'll continue to improve and come to play a pivotal role in this team.

    Also, I think Brooks and Landry have the offense and defense to develop into excellent, balanced role players.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    One of the most important things for a role player to do is to, well....play your role.

    Too often players try to do too much, but the good role players....the Batiers the Horrys...the Kerrs...etc.....play within themselves, they do things they are good or great at and rarely try to do things they are not good at.

    That is what makes a good role player.....IMO.

    DD
     
  7. matty101

    matty101 Member

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    A good role player is someone who does what the team needs them to do.

    Whether it be play defense, rebound, hustle, block shots, knock down 3's, etc.

    If he does what the team needs of him, then he is playing his role well, hence a good role player.
     
  8. pasox2

    pasox2 Contributing Member
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    I don't like Shane Battier's game at all. He's incompetent. How is that "being good? " There's nothing good about his being slow, incapable of scoring, without a true position, and below average in all-around skills. Wouldn't you rather have a Mario Elie, in his prime, to complement Yao and Tmac ? Wouldn't you rather have Bob Horry? Shoot - Wouldn't you rather have a Chucky Brown? Those guys were role players. Battier jams up the flow because he can't do anything particularly well. He can't stop anyone, he can't feed the post, he's slow, he can't score in the post or on any kind of simple jumper to save his life. He is a huge talent deficit. His "energy" just masks how fundamentally terrible he is.


    A good role player feeds the stars. They know what the stars need and they give it to them. That might be help on the boards or knocking down the easy shot on the kick-out. A good role player understands the stars game and complements that.
     
  9. jVgOwnsYou

    jVgOwnsYou Contributing Member

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    I honestly think Scola can go beyond just a role player and actually turn out to be a star playing along side of Yao. I've been waiting for this team to pick up an offensivly capable 4 since Yao got here. Yao made Juwan and Chuck Hayes look like they can actually start in this league....Imagine what he's going to make Landry and Scola look like.

    People always bring up Scola's defense, but from what I see he is a above average defender. He's strong and he moves his feet well and he's smart....He can trap guards coming off the pick and roll and still recover to guard his man. He hustles for loose balls and he plays passing lanes. Chuck Hayes is a stronger post defender and he uses his body better than Scola does, but Scola can do some things on defense.

    Also, remember he's still a rookie.
     
  10. jVgOwnsYou

    jVgOwnsYou Contributing Member

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    First of all...Horry is a great clutch shooter don't get me wrong, but don't act like Shane can't knock down a three....Shane's career 3 point percentage is a whole five points higher than Horry's, Also big shot bob only has one season in which he averaged 2 3s a game and only THREE SEASONS in which he averaged over 1 a game. Battier in a lot less time has four seasons of 1 3 per game and last year he averaged 1.9 a game. I think he will probably have another year similar to that this season so there shouldn't be any complaints about his spot up shooting from behind the arc.

    If you ever watch a game closely, you would notice Battier's effect on the game. He is very sound defensively and he forces great players in to difficult shots. As Morey said the other day on the radio "he is the anchor of the 2nd best defense in the entire league". Battier also creates extra possesions by getting offensive rebounds and hustling to loose balls. He is also very good at taking charges. Probably the best in the league. Those extra possesions are HUGE especially in close games. I dont know how many times Shane has tipped the ball to a team mate in the final minutes of a game to save a win. He has also hit CRUCIAL 3 point shots in the 4thj quarter especially this year(game winner against LA, one in Seattle to cut the lead down to 2)

    Last game against Golden state when they cut the lead to 4 points in the 3rd quarter, Battier made a play that just sums up what he is all about. Yao got hammered, Golden state picked it up and ran it back up court....Shane hustled back, tapped it away from them, created a steal, ran the floor, and spotted up and hit a 3 pointer.

    That's incompetent?
     
  11. IamKhan

    IamKhan Rookie

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    I do not know about the stats. But I watched too many NBA FINAL games seeing Horry's big clutch 3s winning games. Can Battier do the same for us? I have no idea. Horry is a proven all time great role player.
     
  12. Hayesfan

    Hayesfan Contributing Member

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    He's done it at least once this season... in LA first game of the season. I don't know that he has had the opportunity other than that.

    He hasn't been to the Finals to know if he can do it on that stage. Maybe this year we can find out. As an everyday role player, Battier is solid.
     
  13. blender

    blender Member

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    I don't think Scola will ever be a top-tier power forward in the league, which IMO he would have to be considered a star. But he has the skills, hustle, heart and smarts to be an excellent role player who can fill our frontcourt needs. He complements Yao well when he's in with the big fella, and is able to hold his own when he's the center of frontcourt attention as backup PF or center.

    And I agree that his defense isn't bad. I haven't checked the numbers, but his tendency to pick up needless fouls seems to be going down as well, a sign that he's adjusting to the NBA.
     
  14. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    1. Knowing your role and exceeding
    2. Showing a high bball IQ by watching the game and knowing what's going on
    3. Know your job plus the other 4
    4. Show enthusiasm at all times
    5. Lift other players up
    6. Study film consistently
    7. Play team and individual D
    8. Become a coach on the floor
    9. Be able to score when given the chance - whoever scores the most points still wins in the NBA.
     
  15. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    By the way can Scola Dunk, at one point he's going to have flush one in somebody's face to get respect.
     
  16. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    A good role player...(wait for this)

    ...plays his role well.

    If that role is to play lock-down defense, rebound, run an offense, make shots, or provide bench scoring, a good role player does it well.

    At the end of Matt Bullard's career, he had two roles, end-game free throw shooting, and baseball-style passing to set up last shots. He excelled at both of them. While those are both very minor roles, you could say that Bullard was a good role player.
     
  17. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Member

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    pasox2's hate on Battier here is ridiculous. Yes, he has obvious weaknesses. And yes, this is an off-year for him. But to say that he can't stop people, make jumpers, and has horrible all-around skills makes no sense.

    Battier is acknowledged as a very good perimeter defender. Go to 82games.com and check out his record over the last few seasons. His team's defense is consistently better when he's on the floor, and the opposing SF consistently has below average shooting (eFG%, avg is ~0.48-0.49) and overall performance (PER, avg is 15.0).

    Battier doesn't handle the ball himself and won't put up a lot of points, but he DOES make the limited shots which are expected of him. He has a career 0.39 3PT%, which is pretty damn good.

    He's also one of the few players who can average about 1 steal AND 1 block per game.

    The no-skill, no-effect roleplayer who hustles but doesn't accomplish anything tangible is a description of Ryan Bowen, NOT Shane Battier.
     
  18. roxgirl

    roxgirl Member

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    Everyone has a role. It could be to score a lot, pass a lot, play defense, provide energy, take the last shot, rebound, foul, etc. Everyone has a role. So you be a good role player, fulfill your role as best you can.
     
  19. awo86

    awo86 Rookie

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    WE HAVE THEM!!!!!!!

    battier, scola, landry, brooks, chuckwagon....these are all great role players- that is if we're paying them lik a role player.

    too bad bonzi did not develop into a consistent offensive threat that we occasionally see.
    too bad rafer alston doesn't know how to shoot

    too bad francis has lose his ability to penetrate.

    But if rafer kows how to shoot, then we can win a championship.
    if bonzi is the offensive threat that he used to be, then we have high hopes.
     
  20. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    Every player is a role player. Yao is the post scorer,rebounder, paint controller. Tracy is the creator,shot maker, defender or all around guy. I can go on. What makes the team good is on a nightly basis they perform their role at a high level.

    It starts with yao and tracy. When yao plays similar to what he did against the warrior, the rox are tough to beat. When tracy plays like he did against portland and pre injury, the rox are very tough.

    I think the success of this team solely relies on the roles of the 2 stars. After that, the Battiers,alston,scola, and brooks of the world can fill their role with less pressure.
     
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