1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

What is Preseason for?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DREAMer, Oct 15, 2000.

  1. DREAMer

    DREAMer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is Langhi hurt? I thought the preseason would be the best time to see what the rookie could do. Maybe you're supposed to wait until the 30th game. Maybe that's a much better time.

    Also, is Walt gonna do us like he did last year by starting off the season shooing 30% for the first half? What is with this guy? Don't talk to me about his minutes. He's averaging just under 20 mpg and shooting 28.6% from the floor, and hasn't hit a 3PTer yet.

    Cato: 5.7 pts and 6 rebs isn't exactly the improvement I expected to see out of him. Here's another stat: 18.33 mpg and 4 fouls per game. How is he gonna get the minutes if he can't stay on the floor? Don't pass it off as "just preseason", b/c foul trouble has been a problem of his since he's been in the league.

    Mobley: Who told him he could come out and be the best player on the team? Well, maybe not, but ain't it fun?

    Collier: OMG, I thought we got rid of Richard Petruska and Zan Tabak years ago. No wait, that's wrong of me. Those guys could at least move.


    ------------------
    I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
    DREAMer's Rocket Page


    [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited October 15, 2000).]
     
  2. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2000
    Messages:
    8,949
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Walt was horrible. He's putting the ball on the floor too much much for my taste, based on his skills. 5 minutes, and 2 turnovers? Ouch.

    Numbers don't quite tell the whole story for Cato. Did you see him today? He was MUCH improved from last year, a real force down low (at least against San Antonio's 2nd string), but his stat line was not all that different.

    Mobley's just showing everyone how to use their left hand, that's all. (I'm gonna go ahead and predict him as my 6th man of the year, that is if Rudy doesn't strangle Walt forcing Mobley into the lineup.) [​IMG]

    It's either that or Steve's armband beholds the power.

    I thought Collier played well vs. Charlotte. He was an absolute disaster tonight. But, we do know one thing: The Rockets are a much better team when Duncan and Robinson aren't clogging the lane (alright, we already knew that.) So, if Collier can plant his feet in cement after standing at the three point line, Duncan and Robinson are no longer in the lane. And Francis and Mobley can score straight to the hoop just like they did against Steve Kerr and Derrick Dial. The key is implimenting Collier. I think he was too close to the lane and not setting enough picks, or the playmakers weren't using them. For example, one play I distinctly recall had Shandon in the corner, with Collier a few feet in front of him in between Shandon's defender (Derek Anderson) and Duncan behind Derek. Basically, if Shandon was given the ball, he'd have an open 3 in the corner pocket, with Derek Anderson having to scramble around Collier's stuck body. Basically, in most situations, Collier needs to play like a 7 foot, 260 pound Malone without a post-up game: Stand on the perimeter, set a few picks, and roll off them, and be dangerous with the outside shot.

    Rudy CAN employ this, as Mobley was often seen posting up. Hinting for an inverted offense?

    ------------------
    The Serious Police are watching.
    Follow the rules or be assimilated.
    Shandon is underrated.
     
  3. ROCKETBOOSTER

    ROCKETBOOSTER Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dreamer, do not focus so much on statistics, man. You may be in bad mood right now(which happens to us all) which sometimes will allow you to focus only on the negatives.

    If you watched the game Cato is improving. Plus this is the first night Rudy has given him decent minutes(only 27).

    Hakeem looks good out there defensivley(now i'm getting in a bad mood because this is Hakeem last year and all, and mine too since i'm jumping into the Buffalo Bayou when its all over)so cheer up, bro.

    It doesn't matter what kind of mood your in when watching Collier though, he just plain sucks.

    ------------------
     
  4. Oatdog

    Oatdog Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2000
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Man, what are you guys whining about Walt for? He's playing well. Look at how many times he's getting to the line. For the number of touches he gets, that's fantastic! And you guys are saying he's putting the ball on the floor too much? His jumper's not falling, but you'd rather him keep jacking it up instead of making something else happen. Ridiculous! That jumper will fall eventually, and his getting to the line so often is very encouraging. Not bad for a supposedly "one-dimensional shooter." Give me a break!

    And how can anyone complain about Cato?!? Not if you've been watching the games. The guys playing well defensively, and most importantly, his head is in the game. He's also bulked up some. My absolute favorite improvement in his game, however, has got to be his tenacity on the offensive glass! He seems to have finally realized that his role on offense is to get second shot opportunities for the team! He had 4 offensive boards in 20 minutes against Charlotte and was just as aggressive against Dallas and San Antonio. So his stats weren't as impressive against the Spurs? Big deal. That doesn't prove anything. Unlike the rest of the team, all of Cato's minutes came when the Twin Towers were in there. There isn't a better rebounding team in the league than San Antonio when those guys are in there...still, his numbers were more than respectable. Incidentally, Charlotte' frontline is not too shabby either, and Cato looked good against them.

    I'm siding with Nike on Collier. This Collier bashing is getting almost as old as the Walt bashing. The guy isn't an all-star, but he's got three things going for him that make him work well on this team: size, a good shot, and nice hands. He looked very good against Charlotte. Tonight, he got schooled by DRob, but who wouldn't see that coming. I doubt Pryzbilla would have shut him down either. Heck, Dream looks like he's 20 years older than the Admiral instead of just a couple. Why doesn't the Dream try power yoga or something in the offseason? It's disappointing to see he's only now seeing how his breathing is affected by exercise. I thought he was being paid $13 million. I think that kind of paycheck could call for a little offseason conditioning - very disappointing!!!

    I too would like to see Langhi in there more though. I mean, come on, just sit Bullard on the IR already. He's filled his role for a while, but it should be blatantly obvious that Langhi is better in just about every aspect! Give the guy some da** PT!

    Also, Los has looked pretty good. I wouldn't mind seeing him get some more minutes, but then there aren't that many minutes to distribute....

    [This message has been edited by Oatdog (edited October 15, 2000).]
     
  5. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    6,993
    Likes Received:
    140
    DREAMer: Have you even watched the games? I have reason to believe you are basing your whole opinion on Cato solely on stats, because he has looked impressive.

    Dallas: 11 minutes and 2 rebounds
    Charlotte: 20 minutes and 10 rebounds
    San Antonio: 22 minutes and 6 rebounds
    Average: 17.6 minutes and 6 rebounds

    And that is based on just stats alone. The Charlotte game included 4 offensive rebounds for Cato. Over the last 2 games he has also worked very hard on the offensive glass, going after every loose ball. Don't see the improvement? Compare his numbers from this preseason with his averages of 24.3mpg and 6rpg from last season.

    His only problem right now is that he goes after every pump fake, but that is something that can be worked on. He is a work in progress, and I am happy with the effort he has put forth so far.
     
  6. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 1999
    Messages:
    6,237
    Likes Received:
    2
    NIKE, I didn't watch the game, what's your excuse? [​IMG]

    Walt registered in espn's box score at 18 minutes, 5 boards, 1 block, 1 asst, 2 tos and 4 points. I am not quite sure why you are upset.

    It's a preseason game and there's a whole different ball game going on right now. A PF, even a healthy dream for a while... there may be 2 other people that Walt is used to in the lineup at any given minute... so give him a break. It's clear by other viewers and his line that he's not solely focused on offense. When he does tie that mindset into shooting, mmm.... good.

    ------------------
    "Everyone I know has a big but...

    come on Simone, let's talk about your but."
     
  7. DREAMer

    DREAMer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    0
    TCab,

    No, I don't see the improvement. You compare this year's preseason performance with last year's preseason performance. Then you compare those preseason stats to his regular season stats.

    You're making it too easy for me. You're proving my point exactly. You keep clammering all about his rebounds, when if you look at all the stats you'll see that he's only averaging TWO more rebounds than FOULS.

    So, #1 he can't stay out of foul trouble and #2 he goes for every pump fake out there. But, you still want everyone to give him time, let him develop, because he's a "work in progress"? How many years does a player get to be called a "work in progress" until they're finally called a "lost cause" or "failed project"?

    Look, I want Cato to do well, just like any Rocket fan. I for one, am just tired of waiting and having to watch his total lack of basketball smarts and poor attitude.

    ------------------
    I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
    DREAMer's Rocket Page

    [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited October 15, 2000).]
     
  8. alaskansnowman

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 1999
    Messages:
    1,961
    Likes Received:
    9
    I for one, am just tired of waiting and having to watch his total lack of basketball smarts and poor attitude.
    -DREAMER

    Cato's attitude is not poor anymore. In fact, he has a very good attitude right now. It's true he does jump at pump fakes, but he IS gettin better at it, and he has shown some signs of other bball smarts. LIke 1 time, he let a guy drive on him, but he stayed right there so that he could block him. He kinda lured his defender in for the block.

    Bill and Calvin also seem to think that Cato's improving.

    But, you still want everyone to give him time, let him develop, because he's a "work in progress"? How many years does a player get to be called a "work in progress" until they're finally called a "lost cause" or "failed project"?-DREAMer

    Well, Cato's only been a work in progress for 1 year so far. Last year is the only time he got any regular minutes. I say 2 years till he's a lost cause.


    ------------------
    president of the dan langhi fan club.
     
  9. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2000
    Messages:
    8,949
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Achebe-I saw the game, I was using nba.com's numbers (the same ones that had Francis for 15 minutes [​IMG] ). I thought Walt had more minutes. I still stand by my statement he didn't play a very good game.

    Basically, in the first quarter, our offense and defense in a 5 minute little part was awful. On 2 consecutive plays, Walt tried to take a guy off the dribble (Sean Elliott or Derek Anderson, I forget) and had the ball stripped for 2 breakaways for San Antonio. He was trying to be Francis or Mobley, and it wasn't working, especially considering his speed compared to theirs.

    One thing I've noticed, is Shandon seems to be a bit in a funk. He's been getting his shots, they just haven't been going down. I don't think it's much to worry about though.

    To anyone looking at Mo's line and wondering what he was doing: Throughout most of the game, he was beating his defender, and getting a good shot that would just barely bounce/roll out. Mo was very solid on the rebounding end, and had one VERY nice block in the 3rd quarter, where our entire defense was dominating, of course with no Duncan or Robinson). The power forward line for yesterday was 15-10. Not bad at all, and it should be more when Mo gets in his rhythm.

    Francis was much better about turnovers. One of his 3 was just a silly one where he stepped out of bounds on an iso. If you throw that out he'd have 6 assists to 2 turnovers, or that magical 3:1 ratio for PGs.

    ------------------
    The Serious Police are watching.
    Follow the rules or be assimilated.
    Shandon is underrated.

    [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited October 15, 2000).]
     
  10. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    187
    DREAMer- you`re really reaching. You don`t want Cato to do well, `cause if you did, you wouldn`t be putting so much effort into finding the negative. 6 rebs and 3 blocks in twenty minutes are great numbers. You haven`t been watching the games, have you? Confess.
     
  11. CompaqC

    CompaqC Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    2
    DREAMer

    You mentioned not saying "it's just preseason" but face it man...it IS just the preseason. It doesnt mean a thing. Starters get less mintes to give the newer player s a chance they probably wont get during the season. Look at the Lakers. They lost twice including one to the Wizards! does that mean they wont make the Palyoffs. NO....IT'S JUST THE PRESEASON!

    ------------------
    How Sweet it is!
     
  12. vj23k

    vj23k Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    5,351
    Likes Received:
    45
    cato's also scoring well, and hes not even getting the ball too much, 8 points in 18 minutes i think. this offseason i didt want him to work on his build, but his offense. he could be soo good if he could get more low post moves.
     
  13. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    8,266
    Likes Received:
    1,246

    I think 8 boards a game would be quite good!!


    ------------------
     
  14. Oatdog

    Oatdog Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2000
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know what the point of his getting low post moves would be when he's never going to get any touches. He is the fifth option no matter who he is out there with. I like what he's doing right now by going after the offensive boards. A consistent jumper would nice too, but not entirely necessary.

    ------------------
     
  15. DREAMer

    DREAMer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. N,

    Well, I don't think 8 rebounds and 6 fouls would be good.

    Besides, if he continues to stay in foul trouble (which has been one of my main friggin' points) he will not be able to average 8 boards, because he won't get the playing time to do so.

    -----------------------
    vj23k,

    In 17.67 minutes he's averaging 5.7 points.

    Now, his offense isn't exactly my main concern, but if he truly is our "center of the future", then he will have to develop a more consistent offensive game.

    -----------------------
    CompacC,

    My original statement said, "18.33 mpg and 4 fouls per game. How is he gonna get the minutes if he can't stay on the floor? Don't pass it off as "just preseason", b/c foul trouble has been a problem of his since he's been in the league."

    What I was referring to was his inability to stay on the floor and in the game to help the team in whatever capacity he is capable of doing, because he's in foul trouble. And, that foul trouble has been a problem for him since he's been in the league.

    How does preseason have any bearing on Cato being foul-prone? (I agree there may be some small affect, because he's getting back into game shape, but that affect is minimal to his overall propensity to foul.)

    -----------------------
    Nolen,

    I didn't find the negative in his rebounding and shot blocking. Besides, he's averaging two blocked shots a game, not three. I was wondering why he is still so foul-prone, and why his production is not matching this mythical "improvement" in his game.

    As for me not wanting "Cato to do well". I did state before, "Look, I want Cato to do well, just like any Rocket fan. I for one, am just tired of waiting and having to watch his total lack of basketball smarts and poor attitude."

    It's called frustration. I do not like players who do not have a court savvy, or good basketball instincts, and I put Cato in that category. He's just the type of player that I'd see on another team and say, "I'm glad he's not on our team".

    Even if you're not the most talented player in the NBA, if you understand the limits of your game, and understand a little bit about the game, then you can be much more productive and effective than a more gifted player.

    Take Pig Miller for example. He was one of my favorites, because he knew his role and did it well. Or, Scotty Brooks, when he was here he provided a spark off the bench and pushed his much more athletic teammates with his hustle and determination.


    ------------------
    I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
    DREAMer's Rocket Page

    [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited October 15, 2000).]
     
  16. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    6,993
    Likes Received:
    140
    DREAMer: So what do you suggest we do? Trade Cato and make Jason Collier our center of the future? That in itself is more than enough reason to hold onto Cato for the time being.

    For now, he's all we have and we need him if we want to be successful. All I wanted this season was for him to put forth some effort on the court, and so far he has done that. Atleast while we have him, give him time. Some players take a lot longer to develop than others, and in Cato's case we should be glad he had a change of heart and attitude.

    Then, if he doesn't produce after this season, ship his ass.

    ------------------
    Mo money, Mo problems...
     
  17. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    187
    Come on... you didn't see the games... confess. Funny how everyone who did see the games talks about Cato's improvement. Funny how all you have to support your bashing is some numbers, when the majority of the numbers work against you. I stand corrected- he's averaging two blocks a game. So, 5 points 6 rebs and 2 blocks in seventeen minutes. Put that in starters minutes around 35 and that would put the averages around 10 points 12 rebounds and 4 blocks. Of course he won't average that in 35 minutes, but Christ, wake up and see how good those numbers are for 17 minutes. The only stat you are clinging to is the fouls per game, and some false accusation about poor attitude. A few people have already pointed out his marked change in attitude, not complaining to refs.

    Of course, those people watched the games.
     
  18. DREAMer

    DREAMer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, in 35 minutes he'd be averaging 8 fouls a game.

    Nolen,

    I hope you're right. I hope Cato has improved. It'd be good for the team and both of us as fans.

    I don't like Cato, I've never shyed away from that. But, I never liked Barkley much either. One thing they had in common was those Rocket PJs, and that's all I need.... that and for them to play harder.

    ------------------
    I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
    DREAMer's Rocket Page
     
  19. DREAMer

    DREAMer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cato's progress with his new "improvement" through six preseason games.

    Last year's stats in italics:

    PTS - 5.17 - 8.72 (Worse - This is not my biggest concern.... yet)
    MIN - 19.17 - 24.32 (Worse - This is due to his foul trouble)
    FG% - .636 - .537 (Better - He's shooting less and making more)
    FT% - .500 - .649 (Worse - He's no Hornacek, but he needs to hit a few more)
    REB - 4.67 - 5.98 (Worse - This is my biggest concern. If he's improved then this has to be the category we see it)
    AST - 0.17 - 0.40 (Worse - Not a concern)
    STL - 1.00 - 0.51 (Better - Could be good news)
    BLK - 1.67 - 1.91 (Worse - This is the other category we should expect to see an improvement)
    PFs - 3.17 - 2.69 (Worse - He can't put up stats if he's on the bench)

    ------------------
    I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
    DREAMer's Rocket Page


    [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited October 22, 2000).]
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now