What ever happened to the Great Centers of the NBA

crash5179 · Feb 12, 2001

Moses Malone
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bill Walton
Bill Lambier
Hakeem Olajuwan
Patrick Ewing
Ralph Sampson
Robert Parish

All of these guys were playing during the mid 80s. All could get double digit rebounds. All could score 20 or more points. All could play D. All (with maybe the exception of Lambier) could block shots. And all these guys could start on any team in the NBA right now with maybe the exception of LA where they have Shaq.

So I ask what has happened to the NBA center? Is the true dominating center an indangered species, a thing of the past?

Are there any Olajuwan's, Malones, Jabbars or Waltons on the horizon? Is Woods going to be the real deal? How about Curry? Or are we doomed to watching the 6'9" power forward playing center, averaging 12 points and 8 rebounds a game?

Does anybody remember Ralph Sampson averaging 20 pts and 11 boards and we were complaining about his lack of heart? I would love to have that kind of production now. So would any other NBA team in the league. Imagine a center that can get you 20pts 11 boards 2 blocks that can run the floor and play D.

Would someone with Marc Jacksons production be considered anything more than a good back up in the 80's? Now he is going to be a highly chased free agent.

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Live · Feb 12, 2001

I think the lack of true centers is more cyclical than permanent. Just look on the horizon with prospects like Curry, Woods, Chandler, Diop, even Dalembert, the C position should be stocked with fresh talent in the coming years.

But I do think the days of the big, low-post oriented C are over. The C's of the future, with a few exceptions, will be dominated by athletic, wiry-strong inside-outside players with games more similar to Fs than traditional Cs. The advantage is increased skill-level at the position, more flexiblity and multi-position players, and possibly more athleticism. But the drawback will be that there will be a lot of players capable of doing a lot of things well, but not one thing exceptionally well. That's my prediction.

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Who's better: Kelvin Cato or Joe Barry Caroll?

Take your time!

heypartner · Feb 12, 2001

Are you asking where have all the above average centers gone? I can understand that point more than one that says where have all the Great Centers gone.

Your list spans 3 decades, so it doesn't really say much when you consider Shaq and Mourning should be there. So, the league has two Hall-of-Fame centers in their prime right now. Further, we can all agree that had Duncan gone to Pitino, he would be playing center with Walker as PF. That would give this era 3 Hall of Famers in their prime.

I think more than anything else, the league is changing the definition of PFs.

Duncan, Webber and Rasheed could easily be centers in another era. So, you could argue that this era's PF position is the best ever and stealing from the above average center crop, because the big man game has become quicker (thanks in large part to Hakeem), and the PF position must be played by all the above average big men.

Live · Feb 12, 2001

Actually, heypartner, you bring up an interesting point. I've argued to friends and family that eventhough all the great PFs in the league right now aren't listed as Cs, in reality THEY ARE the their teams C's given the roles they play. CWebb is more of a C for the Kings than Divac is, which is ironic because his reluctance to be labeled a C is why he isn't in GS right now.

I've always believed that roles were more important than position. In other words, a championship caliber team is one that maximizes the talents of its players rather than be trapped by the preconceived notion of what is expected out of a particular position. The Pistons proved that you can win a championship with a scoring PG, the Bulls won with a SG being their main low post option and a undersized PF being their interior presence. So in terms of interior play, it's more important to find someone to provide solid play and provide a particular quality versus necessarily trying to find X player to play X position.

------------------
Who's better: Kelvin Cato or Joe Barry Caroll?

Take your time!

Steve_Francis_rules · Feb 12, 2001

I don't know if I would consider Mourning to be a hall of fame player.
Another reason that there aren't many really good centers anymore is that the guys with size just don't have the fundamentals down.

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The whole world we travel with our thoughts,
Finding nowhere anyone as precious as one's own self.
Since each and every person is so precious to themselves
Let the self-respecting harm no other being. -from the Samyutta Nikaya

crash5179 · Feb 12, 2001

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by heypartner:
Are you asking where have all the above average centers gone? I can understand that point more than one that says where have all the Great Centers gone.

Your list spans 3 decades, so it doesn't really say much when you consider Shaq and Mourning should be there. So, the league has two Hall-of-Fame centers in their prime right now. Further, we can all agree that had Duncan gone to Pitino, he would be playing center with Walker as PF. That would give this era 3 Hall of Famers in their prime.

I think more than anything else, the league is changing the definition of PFs.

Duncan, Webber and Rasheed could easily be centers in another era. So, you could argue that this era's PF position is the best ever and stealing from the above average center crop, because the big man game has become quicker (thanks in large part to Hakeem), and the PF position must be played by all the above average big men.</font>
Click to expand...

All the centers I mentioned played at the same time. Sure some were at the end of their prime and some were at the beggining but what do we have now? All I mentioned would either be the best in the east or arguably the best in the West. We have exactly one center that would be considerd one of the best in his current condition, Shaq. Robinson is past his prime, Dream is past his prime and so is Ewing. We had a guy in the All Star game that avgs 10 points and 8 rebounds (Divac). That kind of production would have him coming off the bench back in the day.

I agree that Duncan could be a hall of fame caliber center if that was his position. So that gives us Duncan and Shaq. Do you want to throw in Robinson? I don't. Webber is a classic PF. Rasheed Wallace would be no better than Kevin Duckworth if he played in the 80's IMHO. Speaking of Kevin Duckworth their is another center that would step in and start for just about any team in the NBA today.

As far as the PF's in this league there are no more great PF's than in the era of big men (the 80's) Barkley, Malone, McHale, Rodman, Chambers all reached their prime in the 80s. I think they could hold their own against Duncan, Webber, KG and McDyess.

Perhaps I am struck with a sever case of good ole day syndrome but I remember All Star games that had Mo, Kareem and Dream all on the same team. IMHO we did not have one center in the All Star game with the tallent of any of those. We could all see that Kareem was at the end of his prime but the NBA had Dream just entering his. Their were centers that had just entered the NBA or getting ready to enter in the form of Patrick Ewing and David Robinson. We could all see the past flow smoothly into the present Kareem, Malone and Walton leaving with the entrance of Olajuwan, Sampson, Ewing and later on Robinson. The center postition had a very well defined group of old doninant stars mixed with a group of up and coming young dominating stars.

Now we have Shaq. Mutombo an old man who can rebound like a deamon and block shots but nothing else. Morning, who may never play another game. There is no new talent currently in the NBA to take up the slack. Is Marc Jackson a hall of fame tallented center?

As far as centers in College who do we have? Woods? Curry is suppose to be the next Shaq but he is still in High School.

I just don't see the same quality of big men in the NBA that I saw 10 or 20 years ago.

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What ever happened to the Great Centers of the NBA

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