jsawyer, obviously you didn't get my point. That post was just a jab at your previous post about Rice better than Pippen. I totally agree that Shaq is worth more than Pippen right now. As you say "LA don't want Pippen and Houston don't want Rice". I think we can agree on that.
I don't mind you Laker fans badmouthing Pippen and claiming the Rockets have to unload him for whatever we can get. That psych-out garbage is your job. But what's with you Rocket fans? Do you walk into your boss's office and say, "Gee, Boss, I know I'm bad for morale around here, and I don't have too many good years left, but hey, how about giving me a raise?" Do you walk up to a pretty woman and say, "Look, I know I'm not worth your time, and there's a hundred guys in this neighborhood you'd be better off with, but how about dinner and a movie on Saturday?" Stop the panic. Stop the self-psych-out. The harder you try to sell, the more desperate you look, and the farther your stock falls. Relax, sit back, hold your price level, and listen to the offers.
Some things to consider... (1) Whoever ends up with Pippen is also going have Pippen when he's 39 yrs old and taking up nearly 1/2 of a team's total cap space. For a player that relies on athleticism, I'm not sure anyone wants him at 39 for $15M. (2) Pippen's great "all-around" abilities are a bit over-hyped. Yes, he was (and maybe still is, although he has not shown it) one of the league's best defenders. Yes, he's a good scorer (in the right system). Assists? It's easy to pile up assists when you throw the ball to MJ 30 to 40 times a game, and he shoots it the majority of those times... Rebounds? Who else rebounded on the Bulls? They had no center... Power Forwards were good (Rodman / Grant), but compared to a team like the Rockets with Olajuwon/Barkley, rebounds were plentiful in Chicago. Pippen's a good player in a particular system. We don't have that system. We have players who can't play that system. Why do we want Pippen?
I dunno about you, Will, but my opinion has zero effect on the Rockets and LA front office.... I just try to give my honest and unbiased opinion. If that's wrong, I apologize. But my unbiased opinion is that the Rockets got screwed by Pippen. The fact that I'm a Rockets fan means I want the Rockets to do well. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to try to put a false spin on what has happened the last couple of days....
Dotter: I wholeheartedly agree with you. Will: Can we really " Relax, sit back, hold your price level, and listen to the offers" now that the world knows that Pip wants out? He betrayed us. It's not much that he wants out, that is fine. The way he went out (through his agent) and took this to the public is a low blow. Sailor
The comparison to the Stoudamire and Marbury situations is apples and oranges. Both of those players had leverage because their teams would lose them for nothing at the end of the year because they were becoming free agents, not because they went public. Pippen has zero leverage in this situation compared to the other two because he is under contract for several more years. If the Rockets don't get a decent offer from the Lakers, they should keep him. He was NEVER happy up here in Chicago, so the fact that he might be unhappy if he is not traded is irrelevant. Trading him for less than his market value just so that he won't be unhappy is a ridiculous notion. In fact, maybe he needs to be angry like he was with the Bulls. He certainly played better up here than he did last year fat and happy with his big contract.
Will- do you really think Pippen is worth 14 million under the currect CBA? I would think you would want to unload that ASAP. As a Laker fan I do not want that 14 Million trouble. Hold your price? You may never see the cealing and be stuck with bad stock. It is a gamble and I just don't see the Lakers doing that regardless if PJ wants Pippen.
Will - You're implying an agenda where none exists. I'm not badmouthing Pippen to reduce his trade value and allow the Lakers to trade junk for him - I DON'T WANT PIPPEN. Can I say that any clearer? If anything, I'm glad Houston has said Rice and Horry aren't enough, it reduces the chances of DaGurney parking it in LA. I want no part of his back or his contract, he limits the Laker future to 2 years of title chances tops. Pippen33 - There are factions on our board that are pro and anti-Pippen. The anti group (brilliantly led by Jsawyer) outnumbers the pro group by at least 3-to-1. We DON'T want Pippen.
You Laker fans crack me up! You're so full of Bull ... There's an old Jewish proverb that goes,"Bad! Bad! says the buyer, but then he goes his way and boasts." That's what you guys are doing. You're acting like car dealers. You are coming onto our bulletin board and claiming that Pippen sucks so you won't have to pay fair market value for him. Yeah, sure, the Rocket fans feel spurned right now by Pippen and we're pissed off at him and saying lot's of nasty stuff. He got a huge contract which limited our ability to get some other players, Barkley took a huge paycut to bring him in, he did some blameshifting which was not very manly of him, and didn't do what it took to fit in to our system. Now for him to leave without proving he was worth it, is irritating to us. But the fact is, Pippen was considered "The player to get" last year (LA was trying to get him, too), and "the best all-around-player in the league," according to most press sources. Everyone thought that he would take Houston right to the Finals. Even with a sub-par performance last year, he was on the ALL NBA Defensive Team, the best defensive person at his position. He knows how to win, (LA players sure don't) having been on 6 championship teams. Michael never won a championship until Pippen came along. Most of us know that LA has some of the best talent in the league, but the egos clash, and they don't know how to win in crunch-time. A winner could make a big difference for you guys, so cut the Chicago Bull ****. Let's do a trade that works for us both. We're not Orlando with no options here, and we aren't panicking. I believe there is a trade that will put us both in the Western Conference finals, and we know the winner will take it all over anyone in the East. As is, both teams probably won't make it, like they are. Do you guys really think that we'd just hand over one of the 50 best players in NBA history to you, so you can beat us in the playoffs? We'd rather trade him to the Clippers. If you give us fair market value, instead of treating us like a car dealer, we might trade him to you, but only if we get better in the process. Rice and Horry won't make us better. But if you don't get realistic, he's going to get traded somewhere else, and you'll miss out on a great opportunity, and look back and "wonder, if only ..."
testcase: you are one sick mofo. thanks. i hate the jazz too. ------------------ Tishanna the "RocketGirl"
Sherlock - PLEASE trade Pippen to the Clips that's fine with me. Choose not to believe me if you wish, but I'll say it til I'm blue, I DO NOT WANT SCOTTIE PIPPEN IN LA! He's done, or damn close to it, and I don't want to be shelling out $15 million to a player who lacks the health to bring his agility-based game. I am not here to drive down trade prices, just to dispel two myths I've read in here - that a Pippen deal can be leveraged into Shaq or Kobe (never in a million years) and that LA is dying to get their hands on Pip (Jackson wants him for a reasonable price, but MANAGEMENT is not interested, especially Buss). If you choose not to believe me so be it, go to the Laker BBS and see what JSawyer and I have been posting in there for months about how we don't want Pippen. The Anti Pippen Assocaition is alive and well. I want the four-year feature "Pippen in Traction" to have an exclusive engagement in Houston thank you very much. Please keep Pippen, trade him to the Clips, whatever, anywhere but the Lakers. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
sherlock: good post. my response? No Sh*t Sherlock! both teams aren't going to get there as they stand now so let's find a way to get something done. straight up, three-way, sneaking in from behind... there has to be a way to get our team to the top of the mountain. Skywalker: we believe you but you don't represent all the Laker fans out there. you sound intellegent though. drop me a line sometime. i like guys with a dark side. it's the new york coming out of me i guess. ------------------ Tishanna the "RocketGirl"
regarding to the marbury comparison that was brought up....BIG difference. In Steph, you got a 21 year old player who hasn't even reached his prime yet, and i dont know of any team that wouldnt like to have him running the point. Plus, since bird's rights are transferrable through trades, you can resign him for the max. PiP on the other hand is 34, will eat up cap space till heze 38, and teams dont need him. ------------------ One of the 50 greatest players in the game should be able to fit into any system. Hell, Drexler fit into our system fine. Scottie Pippen is the biggest mistake the Houston Rockets franchise ever made-
Get rid of the guy already. He is going to be a headache this year. You can just see this coming. He is nothing but a baby. I never thought about the fact that his back was bad and that is why he played the way he did. I just think it comes down to this. HE DID NOT WANT TO. If Drexler(who has practically the same type of game with a better jumpshot)can adapt to Hakeem downlow, then why couldn't he? And Dream demanded the ball more THEN than now. And when Chuck got here, he still scored damn near 20 pts per. Rocketgirl34, NYC in the house! ------------------ Bring on Payton. [This message has been edited by Almu (edited August 13, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Almu (edited August 13, 1999).]
Just a few observations: 1. The Rockets want to get fair market value (not just salary cap) for Pippen if they trade him. 2. The Lakers want to lowball the Rockets in a trade by offering Rice and Horry. Their talk about Pippen's "bad" back is an attempt to drive his market value down. (Funny, but last year when Pippen was on the market his "bad" back didn't seem to bother them much.) 3. Pippen claimed that he was looking forward to bringing a championship to Houston and now after a half-year of trying to adapt to a new system he wants to cut and run to where he can be in his old system again. (Evidently proving that his status as an all-time great is more a product of the system he played in rather than his ability.) He now reportedly is demanding a trade. I would prefer to see Pippen be a man and stay at least try to back up his words to the Rockets when he came but if he must go here is what I would have to say if I were Les Alexander. To Pippen: If I trade you, you go where it benefits the Rockets most. If that isn't the Lakers then too bad. If we can't trade you for equal value we aren't going to hurt the team just to get rid of you. In that case you can act like a man and earn the money we are paying you by doing your best to bring a championship to Houston. Bottom line is if you are going to hurt the team whether you stay or whether you go, then you will suffer with us. To LA: If you want Pippen then give us a deal we can live with that will help our team. We aren't going to give you a guy that will help you and at the same time make us a worse team. We aren't going to accept a guy in any deal who has publicly stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't want to come back to Houston (Horry). If Pippen stays he may be have a bad attitude and be a cancer on this team but we aren't going to trade him for another guy (or guys) that has a bad attitude and will be a cancer on the team. If you won't change your offer then work out a three team deal with the Sonics to get us Gary Payton or with another team to get us equal value for Pippen.
Pippen33.........JSawyer is correct. Most of us Laker fans don't want Pippen. Don't get me wrong, he used to be a great player and he may be one again, but last year he was marginal. Was it his back or the system? Don't know, and don't particularly care. At his age, it's simply not worth taking a chance on. And back injuries are notorious for lingering. The perception may not be correct, but the perception is that he's damaged goods. I agree Rice/Horry for a healthy and performing Pippen is not equal value, but most folks don't believe Pip tomorrow will perform like the Pip of old. There's no way you're gonna get what you may justly perceive as equal value for him. It's just not gonna happen. I think your best bet is to refuse a Laker offer, try to placate him by transitioning to a more up-tempo scheme, and hope his back is truly healed.
Do you guys really think that we'd just hand over one of the 50 best players in NBA history to you, so you can beat us in the playoffs? We'd rather trade him to the Clippers. If you give us fair market value, instead of treating us like a car dealer, we might trade him to you, but only if we get better in the process. Rice and Horry won't make us better. Did we not beat you guys in the playoffs last year? In 4 games? Excuse me if I'm mistaken. I guess I have bad memory. I don't see why a Pippen for a poor free-throw shooter is a dumb trade for Laker. Would any other team give up a 7-time allstar for that? If you think his game is just free-throw shooting, get yourself from under that rock. And if you think shaq is just a bad free-throw shooter, why trade for him? No way. Look at what Shaq have done for the Lakers all these years (no rings) and think of what Pippen had done in previous years. Pippen has obviously been able to bring a team a title while Shaq can't and never has. PREVIOUS being the operative word. And Pippen had Jordan and Phil Jackson. I guess Jordan was just Overhyped and Phil Jackson is just a terrible coach. Objectively, as of today, Shaq and Pippen are pretty even. But tomorrow, Shaq's value goes down, and it's even further downhill from there, and Rudy, and every other GM knows it. If Shaq's value goes down, what does a 39 year old player's value do? Grow exponentially? I just want to state I would never want Pippen. Tell me how many 3 pointers and jumpers he bricked last year. Wow, did he look ugly last year. And You guys are going to run w/ an old Dream and a fat Chuckster? Pu-lease. Pippen will continue to languish in the "stand around the Perimeter" offense. Wow, I still cant belive you didnt trade w/ Toronto for the draft picks. Who's more idiotic, Toronto for offering that trade, or the Rockets for not accepting? Are you guys happy w/ Management for this lack of a move? Ok, are you telling me Mr. 1st team all Defense Scottie Pippen shut down Kobe Bryant? As I remember it, Kobe scored at will, and Kob shut down Pippen completely the game 3 in which he did not guard Pippen. Well,just think if you didnt spend all this money for Pippen, you could land Tim Duncan or Frant Hill. Dont tell me you'd rather have Pippen than these 2.
