We call the shots

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Will, Aug 13, 1999.

  1. Will

    Will Clutch Crew

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    Scottie Pippen is under contract. To the Houston Rockets. That's the bottom line.

    He has reportedly asked the Rockets to try to work out a deal with the Lakers. However, the Lakers are not offering enough to make the trade worthwhile.

    So here's what we have to do:

    Nothing.

    What's the worst that happens? Scottie says he suddenly has serious back pain and can't play? OK, here's what we'll give him:

    Bench therapy.

    Or he can retire and cough up the cap space. I don't mind. It'll hurt him a lot more than it'll hurt me.

    Now, if the Lakers decide to come back to us with a more serious offer, fine. We'll discuss it. But until they do, this is not our problem. This is Scottie Pippen's problem.

    As for all the Laker fans showing up on this BBS and laughing off the idea of trading for Pippen, I understand where they're coming from. Some of them think they have a good thing going, and they're afraid of what they don't know -- Pippen's back, his age, etc. They assume the worst. Other Laker fans are still upset that they traded Campbell and Jones for Rice, so they figure they'll make up for that gaffe by cashing in Rice for more than he's worth. And others want Pippen but think they can talk down his trade value by kicking his tires and complaining about his paint job.

    Look, Laker fans. We don't have to argue with you about this. If you don't want Pippen, why are you here? Go away. If you do, we don't have to give you 15 arguments why you should give up a lot more than Rice and Horry to get him. All we have to do is what we've been doing all along: The Lakers come to us and offer Rice and Horry for Pippen, and we say: "No."

    Everyone has their own threshold. Mine is that Shaq has to be part of the deal. I'm willing to put Hakeem Olajuwon on the table to get him -- and that's more than 90 percent of the posters on this BBS would be willing to offer -- but Shaq is my bottom line.

    You think that's funny? Then go away, and we'll keep Pippen -- on the bench if necessary -- or trade him to somebody else. Whether that's fine with you isn't the point. The point is: It's fine with us.
     
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  2. RKMAN

    RKMAN Member

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    Bravo!

    ------------------
    RKMAN
    President of "The Matt Maloney & Rudy T. Haters Club."
     
  3. BrianKagy

    BrianKagy Contributing Member

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    Bench therapy. I like that.

    How about, "Pine treatment"?
     
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  4. knits stekcor

    knits stekcor Member

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    And Calvin Murphy can be Shaq's personal free-throw coach.
     
  5. payaso

    payaso Member

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    oooh, the running team they could have with:

    Mobley
    Dickerson
    Shaq
    S.Anderson
    Harrington

    get 'em all out on the break and it's like watching a miniature 1st Armored Cavalry bear down on you- 4 Hummers and an M1 Abrams.

    Solid posts, admins...
     
  6. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    Will, well said. We'll just turn down offers untill the cows come home if the Lakers are going to continue to offer what we don't need.
     
  7. popeye

    popeye Member

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    Couple of things Boss Hog Will,Aruba,Knit,Boss Hog BK,RKman and payso:

    Pippen is still worth more to us as trade fodder than he is on the bench. If you were going to waste his butt on the bench anyway,why not send him to toronto for Christie and Davis,or Radj or McGrady,etc... We get the cap room to sign Anderson,get some talent, LA has to deal with someone else for Pippen, and poor Scottie would be mortified.

    Hey, did you guys get the impression last night that Rudy was ... hurt,I guess is the word ... that Pippen went to the media,etc...

    Rudy said things like: "that's not how we do things here","I like to have a quiet talk,work through things with my players,that's how I work", and "we did more for (Pippen) than any other player I have ever had on the team to make him fit in, make him better" ... or words to that affect.

    Mmmmm that whole body language thing was a telltale last night.I can't help but think Rudy came out of that (non)press conference, and said to the trade boys......"get Pippen out of here and I don't care where he goes"
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Popeye, I didn't get to see the press conference (being in Chicago), but from the articles I read this morning, I did get the impression that Rudy felt badly betrayed by Pippen. Especially that comment about accomodating him more than he has anyone else. I think he was really hurt that Pippen would blame his problems on "the system."
     
  9. JR

    JR Contributing Member

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    isn't rudy supposedly the trade boy?

    i don't see what he's so "exhausted" by anyway. What the hell has he been doing lately besides pounding Miller Lites? He sure hasn't been spending anytime revamping this now-perennial first round loser.
     
  10. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    I thought some possibilites for the Grizz would be Francis. As far as Toronto, I'd love McGrady. Obviously there would have to be more involved. Do ya'll like these players?
     
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  11. popeye

    popeye Member

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    JuanV.

    "Betrayed" that was the word I was looking for .... yep "betrayed" is the perfect description of what Rudy looked and talked like.
     
  12. popeye

    popeye Member

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    Love the McGrady/Christie thing ..... Also no one has spoken about a possible four way involving Houston/Toronto/LA /Boston for Houston to get Antoine Walker.Ya gotta believe Pitino is chomping at the bit trying to unload Walker.t all would have to go through Toronto however,because each trade must clear the cap and Toronto has the only room to trade dollar for dollar, plus $6 million to play with.

    I hope Carol Dawson and Rudy worked long and hard last night!
     
  13. Will

    Will Clutch Crew

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    I see a lot of folks in other threads saying we shouldn't even talk about getting Shaq, 'cause it "ain't gonna happen."

    Sounds a lot like a year ago, when people said we were crazy to think we'd get Pippen.

    I'm not saying it's going to happen. I'm saying that the guys who will decide whether it's going to happen are Phil Jackson and Jerry West. We have the player Phil wants. We name our terms, and he decides. My terms are: put up Shaq, and I'll put up Hakeem. Others of you would accept a three-way. If the Lakers can work out a three-way that meets our terms (say, we get Payton), fine.

    But this business of humbling ourselves before the Lakers and agreeing that Shaq and Kobe are untouchable (despite having won exactly nothing in their careers) and scrounging on the floor for the scraps of L.A.'s roster has to stop. Pick yourselves up, people. We have Scottie Pippen. He is a six-time champion and a hell of a player with several great years left in him. There's a bunch of teams around this league for whom he would be the final ingredient in a championship package. We will not trade him for garbage. Make us a serious offer or go away.
     
  14. popeye

    popeye Member

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    My assumption that we would be hard pressed to get either Shaq or Kobe "Costas" Bryant was because I do not thing Jerry West would ever do that trade for any number of reasons.

    To suggest that Kobe was "too talented and too much potential" or Shaq "too invaluable" to be considered in a straight up Pippen trade never came from my lips.Well pen.Well,keyboard.

    If we ended up with Shaq we would keep him and build a multi-year team around him starting this year.He would also prolong Hakeem's career by another year.I would love to see Rudy get his hands on him and make a multyi faceted player out of him.

    Kobe's butt would be traded along with a mandatory Maloney and Bullard to garner the absolute best offer available to ANYONE. I am not a Kobe "Call me MJ JR" fan!I like team players.He's old enough to learn that teams come first. Not highlight reels. Took Iverson a bit to learn that too.
     
  15. Jerry Maguire

    Jerry Maguire Member

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    Will,
    I know what you are talking about, that is why I placed the post of the "Pippen Trade Solution" b/c I know that we have the hammer in negotiations with LA. We Do Not Have To Do Anything, LA is the one that is Trying To Do Something.

    And if it does not work out and we secide not to trade Pippen, just remember what happened the last time a Rocks superstar demanded to be traded (Hakeem 95), we ended up winning an NBA championship.

    So I agree with Will, lets deal from a position of strength not desperation.
    So let's start with Shaq!
     
  16. sailor

    sailor Member

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    Will:

    Thing is, now everybody knows that Pip wants out and that we have to either trade him or end up with a unhappy whiner (yes he's always a whiner, but things will only get worse from here). We do not have much leverage anymore. In this regard Pip really back-stabbed us.

    Le$ paid $67 only to get screwed. I wonder how he feels now.

    If the Rocekts can not make a good deal (meaning Pip for Shaq or Kobe or Payton, however impossible that seems) out of this, the referendum situation won't look too good
    to Les (I'm surprised nobody mentioned that on this BBS).

    Sailor
     
  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Member

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    Will said...this business of humbling ourselves before the Lakers and agreeing that Shaq and Kobe are untouchable (despite having won exactly nothing in their careers) and
    scrounging on the floor for the scraps of L.A.'s roster has to stop. Pick yourselves up, people.

    You seem to know your basketball Will. Who in his right mind would trade a 27-year old Shaq or a 20-year old Kobe for a soon-to-be 34-year old with a bad back and a radioactive contract until he's 38? No one. And certainly not Jerry West.

    All the Laker fans are saying is quit dreaming about Shaq and Kobe, it will not happen and any objective NBA fan knows it. We are not asking you to humble yourselves and bow before the Lakers, we are not asking you to accept LA scrap heaps I for one do NOT want Pippen in LA. And read today's LA Times about what Buss and Kupchak have to say about it if you want further proof.

    You are trying to link two separate thoughts:
    1. The Laker fans saying that what Houston wants (Shaq, Kobe) LA can't and won't provide, EVER.
    2. Therefore Houston has to accept LA scraps off the table for Pippen.

    2 is your conclusion NOT mine. I agree that Rice and Horry are not equal value, and they wouldn't be part of a cap doable trade anyway. LA has to add another $600K.

    Your bottom line may be Shaq, but Jerry West is no fool. He wouldn't trade him for Olajuwon or Pippen, or any cap doable deal Houston could offer. You don't like what LA has offered, fine I accept that as well, it's not equal value. I'm not pushing junk on you, I don't even want Pippen, but if you honestly believe the Rockets can leverage this into Shaq, then you're more naive than what is reflected in your post.
     
  18. popeye

    popeye Member

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    That is not to say that we couldn't trade Pippen to another team for what we would find more suitable [​IMG] .... And I know everyone has an opinion on what "suitable" would be.

    Pippen's wish, of course,is that the new team would take Rice and Horry in return for him. I personally think Pippen screwed himself royally.I also think Jackson wants Pippen more than written,quoted,or let on by the LALA press.

    Ball remains in our possession,there's 6 seconds to play and we are up by five.Your play LA. Double team or foul?Oops,guess what we win,no matter what,I think.

    [This message has been edited by popeye (edited August 13, 1999).]
     
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  19. dotter

    dotter Member

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    You must be kidding, Will. Normally, I agree with you, but not this time. Last year, when Roger Clemens demanded a trade, Toronto had no leverage, knowing that they had to trade him or piss screw up the team (the players then wanted him out too, since he didn't want to play with them). When Stoudamire wanted out, Toronto had no leverage. When Marbury wanted out, Minnesota had no leverage. Each had to take relatively sucky deals. Similarly, if Pippen wants out, we have little leverage.

    Why? Rudy and the Rockets' job is to put together the best team possible. If Pippen doesn't want to play here, he's going to destroy team chemistry if he's playing (he's not going to play hard either). If he's benched, he's going to bitch more and cause internal problems. Pippen & the media will have a field day with it, and it will only keep hurting the Rockets all season.

    It's also not a good investment to waste $14M of cap room on a player that's benched, when there's an alternative which, while not great, is better than that (Rice & Horry or whatever it may be). Bottom line is the Rockets have to put the best product on the court, and keeping Pippen at this point is the worst possible solution.

    It's a sucky situation, but it's reality in an NBA where players have the power. It's also why a team such as Vancouver has so many problems getting anywhere -- good players simply won't stay there and demand to be traded. And Vancouver, as with all the other teams, has to acquiese. [​IMG]

    He will be traded, and we may have to settle for a less-than-ideal deal. Pippen wants LA. LA knows Houston's going to push a trade. LA knows Houston's probably not going to be able trade him anywhere else (Pippen will just say I don't want to play for so-and-so, and the team won't make the trade). LA holds the leverage.

    Similar situation took place last year with Roger Clemens. Clemens demanded a trade - no one offered what was considered "fair value" simply because Toronto would have to pull the trigger eventually. The only difference is Clemens had 4 or 5 "acceptable" teams... Pippen has 1.

    The big difference is that Pippen's in the 2nd year of a long contract, while most of the others were in the latter years.. However, nowhere in that contract does it say Pippen doesn't get paid if he doesn't play hard or has "back spasms" or the like. If he doesn't want to play in Houston, he won't. The only choice we have is whether to pay him to sit or get rid of him.
     
  20. sailor

    sailor Member

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    Skywalker:

    As much as I hate to admit, I have to say you're right. I mean, come on, guys, if you were in the Lakers organization, would you give up Shaq or Kobe for Pip? Now we're in a bad, bad situation because the Lakers are not as desperate as we're (because we HAVE TO trade Pip now), and the Lakers will take advantage of this fact! Come on, they are shrewd business people. Now it's we are like playing a card game with them, and we have shown them all our cards.

    The way I see it, Robert Barr figured this is really no solution to this situation, he simply quit.

    Sailor
     
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