Watson's arm strength

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by EddieWasSnubbed, May 5, 2017.

  1. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Rookie

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    Wait, so Jatman20 isn't crazy about Watson? Thank goodness. I thought BTG was all alone in this. The more the better I say.
     
  2. Nimo

    Nimo Member

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    Yes. He is comparing him to Vince Young and TJ Yates.
     
  3. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    That's how he gets down. He did this type of stuff on the Rockets forum. Now that his homie Dmo is gone, he barely comment on Rockets related threads.

    He probably wanted the Texans to draft Mitch trubisky . Or draft a QB in the 3rd instead.

    And yes sir he blamed everyone but Brock Assweiler
     
  4. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Rookie

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    Hey I wouldn't mind a TJ Yates mentality with a young Vince Young athleticism.
     
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  5. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    You never brought up no damn velocity bull crap until they started talking about his velocity.

    His good outweighs the few flaws that he have. How about talking his clutchness in big games. Or his great leadership trait.
     
  6. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Rookie

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    Here you go BTG. Maybe this will help.

     
  7. Mr. Motiejunas

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    I think Watson has enough to be that guy. I believe in him. All we can do is hope he pans out.
     
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  8. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    Again, you don't know enough of what you are talking about to have this conversation with me. You continuing to spew ignorance doesn't further the conversation and so far that's all you've done. I get it, you are upset that someone said your son Watson wasn't perfect. Deal with it kiddo. Throwing a temper tantrum won't help anything, it'll just make you look bad.
     
  9. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Rookie

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  10. htownrox1

    htownrox1 Member

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    Why don't we go after someone with amazing arm strength and velocity like say a Ryan Mallet or something?

    Oh wait....
     
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  11. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Rookie

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    I just watched both of those videos for the 1st time and I gotta say, the magic number is 9. Nine that were his fault in both his sophomore season and junior season. The rest were hella defensive plays and misses by receivers.
     
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  12. Jatman20

    Jatman20 Member

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    You have me confused with someone else. I don't need scouts to tell me about football. Most scouts are saying good things about Watson and rarely say bad things about him. I've been watching and studying sports for over 30 years.
    I know that Ryan Nolan and Tom Seaver derived much of their velocity from their base or legs. Watson needs to get
    stronger there. His mechanics are compact from windup to release. I don't need a scout to tell me that. These scouts
    that you and others keep talking about love Darnold of USC. I don't like his mechanics at all. I'm my
    own person and stand by my assessments.

    Getting back to Watson......his release......I love the quick release. Dan Marino had a quick release. His dad taught
    him to hold the ball near his ear and release from there. Marino could throw darts on a rope. Marino grew up
    throwing that way. Unfortunately Watson quick release may be taking away from his velocity as it is more finesse
    than power. He can slow his velocity some and go for more power.......strengthening of the wrist. Watson strengthening wrist, Elbow, Shoulders, legs and perhaps going with more of a power release may only get you about 3-4 mph for Watson. That takes him from 49 to around 53 mph.....might be good enough to start and make a pro bowl or two.

    What may be good enough in college, May not be Good ENOUGH in the pros. Dorothy isn't in Kansas anymore
    and Young mister Watson isn't playing Kansas St anymore; now it's the likes of Kansas City and such. These aren't
    kids occupied with class projects or semester finals. These are paid pro athletes that spend most of their time in the
    weight room or watching footage on tendencies and weaknesses. They look for at the QB to see if he tips his throws
    like patting the ball prior to throwing or like Case Keenum or TJ Yates where the Ravens noted in film that one or the
    other didn't or couldn't throw to the numbers and beyond to sideline. Or that Kaepernick doesn't look downfield when rolling left. Below average velocity can be the Achilles heel that dooms a QB.

    Cam Newton is a big mountain who ran in college and is crying about getting hit every play. Doesn't know to slide
    sooner. And when he does slide sooner gets whacked........but they refs have already been trained by Newton
    himself not to call the flag......because they are so used to him sliding too late. He is a big man like Rothlisberger
    that eventually wears down and will experience more injuries. Montana was more of a run sideline to sideline QB
    that could throw with deadly accuracy on the run. Watson made his mark running North and South. In film I saw
    him running a version of read option. Reading the DE and reacting. In the NFL they learned to kill the QB as he
    becomes a running back on that play. QB's were getting battered and bruised. Limits their throwing as the game
    goes on. QBs favor their ribs by halftime. You know Mike Vick ran one of the fastest times at the combine (4.25).
    Vick ran all over college. Geno Smith ran a 4.56 & Bridgewater ran 4.69 (low)...Deshaun ran a 4.68 unofficial time.
    Reggie Bush ran a 4.33. Bush dominated the college game. That's where I learned what happens in college doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL. I wanted the Texans to draft Reggie Bush. Most media wanted the Texans to draft
    Vince Young. Smith drafted Mario Williams. The play of Reggie Bush was too fast for college kids where you have
    one or two fast guys on most teams. In the NFL everyone is fast.....and they take better angles.

    Watch the most recent championship game vs Alabama. Watson runs in the 3rd quarter and gets tagged by Rueben
    Foster as Clemson was driving near the Alabama 20 yds line. Foster almost helicoptered Watson who was fighting
    for that extra yard. Foster is listed as 229 pound middle linebacker. Just wait until Navarro Bowman (243 pounds)
    or a Clay Matthews (255 pounds) hits him reaching for that extra yd. Goggle RG 3 hit by Haloti Gnata.

    Vince Young had a wonderlic Score of 6. He surrounded himself with yrs men around in. Like an entourage.
    He never could take criticism. This is why Fisher and Young clashed. The year Vince Yoing did good was
    while playing with the speedster running back Chris Johnson going one way while Vince ran the other. After
    that season teams adapted. They schemed to stop the run and see if Vince could beat them with his arm. He
    wasn't nearly as accurate when teams made Vince one dimensional. Same with RG3. He killed the league
    his rookie year and completed about 68% of his passes......mostly short bubble screens which are high %.
    But once he got hurt (from running) and decided he needed to be a pocket QB.....not nearly as accurate.
    The other flaw I have with Watson is the Wonderlic. Some may not like the test or disregard it. I see it's
    significance. How Watson scored a 20 on the Wonderlic and graduated with a degree in such little time is a
    mystery. But I don't want to speculate. Gabbert scored 42, Wentz 40, Goff 36, Geno Smith 24, RG3 24,
    Bridgewater 20. These QB's who have seen live action and pro defenses had problems with the Texans
    offense: Fitzpatrick scored 48, Mallett 26, Brock 25, Savage 29, Weeden 27. It took most of these QB's
    10 games to feel comfortable in the system......but Watson is going to just waltz in and take over in week one.
    I hope he doesn't learn bad habits like David Carr did. It ruined him.

    According to NFL.com combine profiles. Bridgewater and Geno Smith are about the same size in height and weight.
    Watson was listed at 221.....about 5 pounds heavier than Smith and Bridgewater. I compare all of them together
    because of size and the fact that they ran in college. I thought ii was giving Watson a compliment in comparing
    him with them. They came out of college highly regarded.

    P.S. Osweiler mechanics were off because he had a distinct "carrying angle". Everyone who took
    physiology and anatomy should know that one. Google what carrying angle is. Try not to compare
    6'2" 221 pound Watson to 6'5" 260 pound Cam Newton. I know it was a mistake, but please.
     
    #292 Jatman20, May 19, 2017 at 1:53 PM
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 2:13 PM
  13. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    LOL...so much WRONG with this post. Wonderlic score has NOTHING TO DO WITH INTELLIGENCE. It is used a tool to see how QBs will react to complex situations in small amount time. The problem is, people take it as a judge on how intelligent a QB is on the field. Most GREAT QBs in the NFL have fallen between 20-30 in scores. Some people are just bad test takers. As you see, there are many BAD QBs with high wonderlic scores.
     
  14. likestohypeguy

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    I was behind a lady at Academy buying random school and pro gear, and she noted to the cashier that they already had "washington" jerseys in stock, then after a few closer and closer corrections she finally landed on his name. She let the cashier know that she bought an Osweiler jersey immediately when they were available, so this time she's going to hold off and wait and see if he's going to be any good first.
     
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  15. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    He's at 53.5 mph...so based on your analysis, his arm strength should already produce enough velocity to make a pro bowl or two. I'm hoping he increases his velocity to the magical 55-56 mph range so that he can make more than 1-2 pro bowls.
     
  16. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Rookie

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  17. Yaosthirdleg

    Yaosthirdleg Member

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    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-allen-no-surefire-franchise-qbs-in-next-wave

    During the run up to the 2017 NFL Draft, I heard several of my colleagues suggest that teams in need of a franchise quarterback should consider bypassing the top prospects in a "weak" quarterback class this year and focus on landing one of the crown jewels from a so-called "loaded" 2018 quarterback class.

    While I thought such conversation dismissed the talent and potential of the likes of Mitchell Trubisky, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes and others at the position, I had heard so much about the next wave at the position that I couldn't wait to take a peek at the group when the draft concluded.

    In fact, I was so excited about evaluating the next generation of field generals that I popped in some tape over the weekend to get a feel for this collection of quarterbacks that I had heard so much about throughout the offseason. After spending the weekend looking at the top prospects at the position, I would tell anyone within earshot to pump the brakes on the hype train that's making this collection of quarterbacks out to be game-changers at the position.

    Now, that's not a complete dismissal of the long-term potential of the quarterback prospects in the upcoming class, but I believe the same questions and concerns that plagued the 2017 group can be applied to those who could be in the 2018 class. Whether it's concerns about their transition from a spread offense to a pro-style scheme or their overall experience and game-management abilities, the top prospects at the position have just as many warts on their respective games as their predecessors. There isn't a sure-fire franchise quarterback in the group and any suggestion otherwise is based on hype, not evaluation.

    For instance, USC's Sam Darnold has been touted as the consensus choice as the top quarterback prospect heading into the fall. Observers have suggested that he has the best combination of size, arm talent, athleticism and intangibles that we've seen at the position in years. While the 6-foot-4, 225-pound playmaker certainly posted impressive production and flashed outstanding potential during his 10-game run last season as the team's starting quarterback, he isn't quite a polished passer who's ready to take the NFL by storm.

    Sure, he compiled a strong completion rate (67.2 percent) and touchdown-to-interception ratio (31:9) last season, but he played in a catch-and-fire system similar to the schemes that were run by Trubisky and Davis Webb. The Trojans' offense features a number of quicks, screens, RPOs (run-pass options) and mesh concepts (layered crossing routes) that are staples in most spread or Air Raid systems. Thus, Darnold will need time to transition to the pro game, just like his predecessors.

    He will also need to refine his footwork and fundamentals to become a more efficient passer from the pocket and show better deep-ball accuracy when he pushes the ball down the field. With Darnold showing a little recklessness with the ball, it's quite possible that his interception totals will swell during his second season as a starter (see the reports of his interceptions during spring ball).

    I see why scouts are excited about Darnold's potential. He's a gritty competitor with big-game moxie and he's capable of shredding opponents as an anticipatory thrower. However, he isn't the finished product that some would have you believe. Thus, we should hold off on crowning him the NFL's next great quarterback.

    The same could be said for UCLA's Josh Rosen. The 6-4, 218-pound junior is everything that coaches and scouts covet in a traditional pocket passer. Rosen can make every throw in the book with pinpoint placement and accuracy while also showing a feathery touch.

    As a freshman in 2015, he wowed evaluators with his ability move defenders with his eyes before throwing receivers open between the numbers. Rosen played like a savvy veteran at the position and exhibited the qualities (arm talent, accuracy, poise and sound judgement) that most desire at the position. Yet, he enters the 2017 season with concerns about his arm strength/talent following a shoulder injury that prematurely ended his sophomore season (missed the Bruins' final six games, underwent shoulder surgery in November). In addition, scouts have concerns about his prickly personality and leadership skills based on interactions with teammates and coaches during his tenure.

    Considering how medical issues and character concerns can affect final draft grades, Rosen also has a lot to prove before earning a franchise quarterback label.

    Wyoming's Josh Allen has been touted as the biggest wild card of the group based on his A-plus arm talent, gunslinger mentality and experience directing a pro-style offense that produced a quality QB prospect a few years ago (see Carson Wentz).

    Measuring 6-5, 222 pounds, Allen is the big, athletic quarterback that coaches and scouts salivate over during the pre-draft process. As a fastball pitcher with unlimited range and outstanding velocity, he can make tight-window throws without flinching. While some of those throws skew toward the "high-risk, high-reward" nature, the Cowboys' QB1 possesses the arm talent to pull it off in most instances. While that is certainly a positive aspect of his game, particularly in dire situations, Allen's tendency to "throw it up" without regard is also a huge concern. He tallied 15 interceptions during his first season as a starter, including seven picks during the team's final five games (1-4 record), which contributed to their late-season slide. Remember how much we discussed Watson's interception totals and Mahomes' gunslinging ways leading up to the draft this spring?

    Allen also struggles with his accuracy and ball placement at times, as evidenced by his 56-percent completion rate, so the Wyoming gunslinger isn't the connect-the-dots passer that some teams prefer at the position. Although he still has time to refine his passing skills and master the management part of the game, Allen is more potential than production at this point.

    With the other top prospects in college football (Washington State's Luke Falk, Oklahoma State's Mason Rudolph, Louisville's Lamar Jackson, Idaho's Matt Linehan, Pittsburgh's Max Browne and Auburn's Jarrett Stidham) also having a number of warts on their games, I think the next wave of QBs might not be the collection of crown jewels that I expected based on the hype. Let's see if that opinion changes after they take the field this fall.
     
  18. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Rookie

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    Just as I suspected.
     
  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    The only real question is if they wait till Watson retires before he's inducted into the HOF or if they make an exception and put him in while he's still playing.
     
  20. houstonstime

    houstonstime Member

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    I'm usually with you on comments, but it's one's like this that get the people you call trolls to come at you..
     
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