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Watson's arm strength

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Two Sandwiches, May 5, 2017.

  1. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    Negative.... What if people want to crush up some jolly ranchers in that cup? The liquid displacement would not equal 6oz of liquid. :cool:
     
  2. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I did answer you. It was based on observation. No QB in the past decade has had any level of success who throws below that threshold (unless they were injured at the time) so that's how it became the benchmark. If Watson becomes the first since they started tracking it then it'll change the thinking on it.

    It's the same as the question, who decided that cornerbacks who run 4.8 40's isn't acceptable? No one did, it's just been observed that cornerback prospects that slow don't do well.
     
    justtxyank likes this.
  3. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    This isn't an argument worth having.

    The human mind's ability to rationalize and ignore things in order to continue with the narrative it wants to believe is amazing.
     
    Nook and Nimo like this.
  4. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    I love the arbitrary 55 mph... This might be the worst take you've ever had. As if QBs throw as hard as they can every single time they throw the ball. 95% of nfl passes probably travel less than 50 mph.

    Regardless, Watson's release time get the ball 25 yards downfield as quickly as someone with an average release time that throws the ball 58 mph. The fact that you harp on this 55 mpg magical number is beyond ridiculous.

    Check out Greg Gabriel talking about people making up the 55 mph number....he more or less says those people have no idea what they're even talking about.
     
    #204 rezdawg, May 12, 2017
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  5. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Yeah I think you are right. Instead of viewing it as a cup that is half full or half empty, it seems that some feel the need to fill the cup the rest of the way with sugar and suggest that it was always full.
     
  6. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Do you love the arbitrary speed standards by which cornerbacks are judged as well? Look, I'm fine with you holding out hope that Watson will be the first QB to show that he can be successful despite a lack of pass velocity since people have been paying attention to it, but attacking the benchmarks simply because you want to hold on to that hope is kind of ridiculous and I hope you realize that.
     
  7. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    There is a lot more that goes into throw velocity than running straight line speed for a CB. And yes, I really dont care about the 40 yard dash times for a CB...i think lateral quickness and cone drills are much more important. Also, hip fluidity and footwork....doesnt matter if you can run a 4.2 yard 40...when straight line speed is such a minimal part of the game...and you dont get to use that straight line speed before having to turn your hips and run...so if you dont have that aspect down, it doesnt matter if you run a 4.1.

    As far as a QB velocity judged strictly on MPH...that number tells such little about the throw. A QB that throws 60 mph without a tight spiral is worse than a QB that throws 50 MPH with a tight spiral. Release angle, ball spin rate, etc... all these have an impact on the actual in-game velocity of throws.

    Sports Science measured Watson at 53.5 MPH....guess where they had Drew Brees in 2012? 52 MPH. Why is Brees effective? Because he has an incredible spin rate and very low wobble on his throws. That's why the critique of Watson's arm strength is really one of the dumbest thing the internet as seen in the last decade. And plenty of people have been talking about how this velocity thing at the combine is basically a crock of **** at this point.
     
  8. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Best of luck with your blind hope.
     
  9. Nimo

    Nimo Member

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    Is there any argument worth having with Bobby involved?
     
    #209 Nimo, May 12, 2017
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  10. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    reading defenses and release time are way bigger factors imo. Watson has a great release time and it remains to be seen if and how quickly he can read defenses. arm strength is on the list certainly but way down it.

    if any of you are still hung up about arm strength there was a guy name Joe Montana who didn't have any and he had an okay career.
     
  11. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    Wow. You got freaking owned right there LOL.
     
    FLASH21 likes this.
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Oh, that's adorable, you misunderstood what he was saying because you ignore your betters. Hopefully one day you'll learn from your mistakes.
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    It's just Texans fans trying to rationalize Watson's shortcomings so they can stick with the narrative that he's the savior. It kind of had to have been expected but it's still annoying. It would be much better if people would just accept that he does have some shortcomings and just hope that he can overcome them instead of pretending those shorcomings either don't exist or aren't actually shortcomings. Probably too much to expect.
     
  14. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    Problem is that you are putting too much weight on something that will eventually have very little to do with his success or failure. Im not claiming Watson to be the savior. I would like that, yes...but until he can show he can read a defense and go through his progressions, then he wont amount to anything. If he can do so, then I can guarantee you that his "sub par" arm will not prevent him from being a franchise QB.

    Stop harping on stupid **** and turn your attention to aspects of his game (mental aspect) that will actually lead him to becoming a successful NFL QB. His decision making will make or break him...not his arm velocity.
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Watson has good potential.

    Honestly I'm more concerned that the OL is gonna get him killed or force him into bad habits

    Also our boring ass vanilla predictable offense won't help
     
  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    So you think it's just a coincidence that no QB that threw under a certain velocity has had success in the NFL in the last decade? Okay. Until I see an example of someone that has had success in the last decade I'll believe that it's unlikely.....even if you think it's "stupid ****".

    Not it's true, there are other factors that are also important, but I don't think you can dismiss pass velocity simply because you don't want to believe it without a recent example of a QB starting out with such poor pass velocity actually panning out. If you have to go back to Joe Montana or talk about QB's with over a decade in the league before regressing to that point then it's pretty clear that you don't have a lot to stand on.
     
  17. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Also when did they even gather the information? Over a few throws at the combine when the kids were all 21? 22? Matt Ryan turns 32 next week - anybody think he throws as hard as he did at 21, 22? And he just had his best season as a pro.

    I'd rate the 55MPH threshold a coincidence more than a standard. You don't have throw 95MPH to be an elite MLB pitcher - but I guarantee you that's the threshold scouts look for.
     
  18. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

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    It's extremely hard to come to such a quick conclusion for a stat that even coaches and executive front office personnel have continued to acknowledge as having no background or gravity to the success rate and ability of a college QBs coming into the pros.

    What velocity did Marino, or Bradshaw, or Warner, or Boomer, or Simms throw? No one fu**in knows! That's how useless that pace of data is. It can't even go back as far as the late 90-00s to show the success or failure rate of QBs in the league. I guarantee at least a couple of those DIDN'T throw the ball at max 55mph coming out of college.

    People trying to obtain different variables to predict the future of a QB which include another variable that has different unexplained or unverified variables to it's own equation itself is idiotic. As others have said there are far more pressing concerns that you can harp on but if the only one you can hang your hat on is that... than so be it. Just don't hang everyone else for calling bullsh** when they smell it.
     
  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    No, that's not a minimum threshold. The comparison here would be a non knuckleballer throwing a 75 MPH fastball. It would be seen as simply too slow to have MLB success.....but I guess fans of a team that drafted him anyway would try to argue that "stuff" was all that matters and that talking about how fast he pitches is "stupid ****"
     
  20. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    Please find me the throwing velocities of the following QBs...

    Drew Brees (If you want to disagree with the 52 MPH that sports science concluded)
    Aaron Rodgers (50 mph according to Sports Science, but with a release time of 0.34 seconds...Watson is at 0.35 seconds)
    Big Ben
    Kurt Warner
    Matt Ryan
    Andrew Luck
    Matt Stafford
    Derek Carr
    Tom Brady (Sports Science says 60 MPH with release time of 0.39)

    So if you want to claim that you need 55 mph to be successful in the NFL, by all means, try to refute what Sports Science says regarding Brees and Rodgers...and find me the velocities of the QBs I listed, since they are successful NFL QBs.

    You know what's more important than velocity? Release time.

    Rodgers has a release time of 0.34 seconds...Brady is at 0.39 seconds. Watson? 0.35 seconds.

    Lets play a game here. Let's say Brady throws 60 MPH and Watson throws 53.5 MPH. Take into account their release times....

    For Brady to throw 20 yards at 60 MPH and a release time of 0.39 seconds...it takes the ball 1.07 seconds to get to the receiver.

    For Watson to throw 20 yards at 53.5 MPH and a release time of 0.35 seconds...it takes the ball 1.10 seconds to get to the receiver.


    And no...lets not get crazy and assume that Im saying Watson is as good as Brady....but I am saying that throwing 53.5 MPH without context means nothing.

    Watson's release time will be one of the very best in the NFL and will get the ball to the spot much quicker than the avg NFL QB that can throw above this magical 55 MPH number.
     
    FLASH21 and TheRealist137 like this.

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