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Walker: not right personnel for small ball & not great from 3

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JW86, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Thoughts? I personally agree with his sentiment and finally a guy who's level-headed, does not just say something to say it or because he has anti-Harden / Houston bias. His argument is backed up by the following: that without Capela or a big man there to protect the rim, the guys - Harden and Westbrook in particular - need to commit (more) to playing defense, bodying up etc. Now this is 100% accurate and I don't think anyone will disagree. The question is will they or better yet, can they?

    The point about 3pt shooting is also dead on and something we've discussed for years now, that we have very average 3pt shooters and just shoot a ton, pointed out by Walker as well. Lastly he also says we cannot afford the 1-17, 2-13 nights by Harden, which is also very true. I think all the points he made - except for Iggy & Crowder who were not in play to come here - were fair and legitimate concerns.
     
  2. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    If you have bad shooters, it’s hard to find a system that will win a championship. Playing great defense is probably the best solution to make up for a poor shooting offense.
     
  3. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Exactly. So you reckon we could?
     
  4. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Honestly. . . . I think . ..esp on the perimeter - the Rockets get alot of ticky tack touch fouls
    I would not mind that but we seriously don't get that on the other end

    It is incredible frustrating to watch Harden and Russ get manhandled.
    d*mn near thrown to the floor on every drive with no calls
    but
    The other team literally runs over us and rams into us and get some of the cheapest chessiest fouls

    I think overly aggressive defense on our part = Foul Trouble plus a Conga line to the Charity stripe

    Rocket River
     
  5. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Well, he’s right.
     
  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I tend to agree but much more about the offense than the defense. Most importantly we don't really have great shooters. With Golden States death lineup of Draymond at the 5, they had some of the best shooters of all time in that lineup, and Draymond can guard 5's as good as anyone in the league. The only thing you could do to defend them is to let Iggy and Draymond have wide open 3's.

    With the Rockets, I think the front office just assumes this is a once in a generationally great offensive juggernaut and I cannot disagree more. Eric Gordon and Covington CAN shoot 3's, but lets not get over excited about 35%, and an Eric Gordon who is shooting 33% this year. This is not Steph, Klay, and KD.

    Now lets talking about Defense.... To me, I think Gary Clark is about as talented and is pretty much the same size/length as Bruno. I actually like Clark more IMO. So let's not get carried away thinking D'Antoni will actually play Bruno at all, and I think D'Antoni HAS TO play Bruno in order for this team to be successful. Small ball is reliant on length and athleticism to switch, recover, and rebound. You need to have guys like Bruno playing with confidence & out there reeking havoc on D. I think giving up Clark just because Tillman is cheap as F is bad, and then D'Antoni likely never playing either guy just compounds the issue. There's just no way this team can be successful on the defensive end with D'Antoni's stubborn ass coaching this team.

    Long story short, I just don't feel great about where the Rockets are and where they are headed. The whole "small ball" thing is stupid. Golden State though proved it can work. Lebron teams have been proving it for years. How many times has Lebron led a team where he was basically the PG on offense, and Center on defense? Let's stop giving the Rockets too much credit for being inventive here. They are just thinking they are on Golden State's level when they are not. Again.. the theme is arrogance.
     
  7. mike2k132

    mike2k132 Member

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    oh lord. why are u guys rockets fans n dont get the simple system....saying guys arent great 3 point shooters...thats the whole point of morey ball. it makes even average 3 point shooting efficient by the shear volume. again. 33 percent in this system is 36 percent in normal system. people its the math. why dont yall at least get that part. now u can disagree if it can work or not is 2 dif arguments. but if someone makes a point that we dont have elite 3 point shooter idk if u can taķe them serious cause that's the whole point of the system ia to make average effective with volume
     
  8. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    The Warriors and Rockets best lineups over the past few years have been small ball lineups. No one else has even come close to beating the Rockets in the playoffs besides the super team. We have never had great shooters, but somehow we continue to finish at or close to the top of the league in terms of efficiency.

    I'm old school so I get the former players point of view, but the game has changed. Both GS and Houston have already shown that yes you can win with small ball. The Rockets have proven that you can win without great shooters, although I'm still trying to wrap my mind around that.

    The style and system has already proven to be ahead of the rest of league by a mile, and everyone over reacts after a lucky buzzer beater. Gobert had to be taken out last night. The Lakers "bigs" didn't destroy us contrary to popular belief. Hopefully Bruno and EG can stay healthy come playoff time, and we will see what happens then. We still have time to add someone that may or may not help from the buy out market.

    I know how much everyone hates MDA around here, but he is the king of small ball and this kind of philosophy. Give it some time and don't let the media or the former players cause you to lose hope. The same guys said that the Warriors would never win shooting jump shots. MDA is the Andy Reid of basketball. A brilliant mind and offensive genius who seems to catch the worst breaks at the worst times. Give MDA a chance. When teams buy in to his vision he always had fantastic results short of beating the Warriors.

    I remain hopeful. We were dead with Clint and without a lengthy wing. At least now we have a chance.
     
    #8 BaselineFade, Feb 10, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  9. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    I just wanted to point out that Clark and Bruno are not the same size/length. Clark is closer to 6'7 at best with a 6'10 wingspan. Bruno is a true 6'9 with a 7'7 inch wingspan. No comparison in that department.
     
  10. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    The problem is that we are not “average” 3 point shooters. We are a poor 3 point shooting team. We rank number 22 in the league in 3p%. We do rank 8th in eFG% on offense thanks to the system we run. But, we rank 17th in eFG% on defense. Our poor three point shooting is clearly holding us back, and our defense just isn’t good enough to make up for our poor offense.

    I like our system, but right now we aren’t good enough on offense or defense to go far in the playoffs.
     
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  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Perimeter defense is the key to defense in the NBA regardless of the system a team runs.

    It is even more of an issue for the Rockets because they lack a traditional center (although I don't think to the extreme as some think).

    So yes, Harden and Westbrook and Gordon and House will need to put more effort out defensively.

    However, the idea that 3-15 or 1-12 from Harden will now magically sink the Rockets isn't any more valid than in the past. When a teams best player has a poor shooting night, they will usually lose.

    Concerning the Rockets quality of 3 point shooters, they are fine..... and without a traditional center their number of open looks will go up.

    The issue will not be the offense... it will be on the defensive perimeter. Covington will help some with that..... but we do not have Chris Paul out there anymore. Westbrook needs to play more disciplined defensively. There is a good chance we see Harden guarding a lot of 3's if Gordon comes back and can play effectively..... Gordon can cover 2's.
     
  12. AXG

    AXG Member

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    The Rockets were one miraculous Bogdanovic shot away from beating both the Lakers and Jazz using "small ball." Also Harden has just been "off" the past few weeks. They should be fine post All Star break.
     
  13. harold bingo

    harold bingo Iso Only Fan
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    As per usual after a loss everyone likes to blame our shooting...last night the offense was great. It was more than sufficient. Rockets had an ortg of 116.4, that should be good enough to win any game. The defense was the problem. We cannot expect to win games when we give up a drtg of 117, it's just not realistic. No team can. I imagine the leaguewide record is somewhere like 20% or lower when you give up a defensive rating of 117 or higher. You should not expect to win when your defense plays that poorly.

    If we had a top 10 defense (10th best) that would put as at a drtg of 108.2. Our record when we have a drtg of 108.2 or better is 22-2. Please, guys, stop blaming the offense in games like this. Last nights game was on the defense. And so was the phoenix game.
     
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  14. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    So if we can all agree as the stats say, that we are not a good 3pt shooting team and if we don’t win and MDA is let go, that with our strategy Morey has failed to deliver enough good 3pt shooters for it to work?
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Huh, been reading my posts I guess... ;)

    If you don't have elite 3pt shooters (over 40%) you will not win in the playoffs......

    And, I am sure DM knows this......when you have streaky shooters you get the 0-27 days that knock you out.

    None of our shooters are elite at it......not a single one....we have a 3pt shooting direction without quality 3pt shooters - it is staggering that this has been overlooked.

    DD
     
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  16. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    Antoine Walker finally got his revenge on Kenyon Martin.

    He ate him.
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This.

    There are always tweaks that can be made offensively. For example the Rockets have been working hard to cut down on turnovers. Also, a lot of the Rockets issues (free throw related) will improve when Harden is healthy. However the problem isn't the #2 offense in the league.

    The issue is defensive and it isn't where most people think. It isn't so much in the middle, it is on the perimeter. They do not keep their man in front of them well enough. Hopefully Gordon will help some in that regard.
     
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  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Three point shooting isn't the problem.
     
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  19. Vivi

    Vivi Member

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    On defense it's obvious they need to play 5 on 5, even more now that they don't have a center that can help in clean up the paint when a perimeter player gets blown by. I said this as soon as there were rumors about the Rockets having interest in Covington and assuming they would've trade Capela for him, but James and Russ specifically will have to play defense consistently now, Covington alone wasn't (and isn't) going to turn this defense into something great by himself, if effort and comunication will not be there, this defense will still suck as before, if not more.

    Offensively i think we should be fine regardless, no lobs anymore and less options on pick & roll but more space on the perimeter...i think James and Russ will make it work in one way or another. As for having better shooters well, we might have better shooters, the problem is this team needs even more defense, and there aren't many players out there that are above average in both shooting and defense. I actually think Tucker, Covington, House and Gordon are all things considered among the best you can have, BMac defense is ass but eh, for the 8/9th man in the rotation he isn't even that bad.

    And i mean, maybe the Rockets could've trade for Korver, Bertans or similar players to make a decent/solid upgrade in terms of shooting, sure, too bad they would've instantly make a bigger downgrade on defense which is something is already ass. This team just can't substain playing bad defenders next to Harden and Westbrook so, between shooters and defenders you have to pick defenders imo, and realistically, PJ, Covington, Gordon and House are pretty much the best you can hope for.
     
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  20. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos MoRley only Fan
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    The idea that some people think that this works in winning games and a ring still amazes me. It’s a little more complicated than volume 3 pt shooting. People that don’t understand math well enough do some simple multiplication and tout it as “can’t argue with numbers!”, but never really account for all the variables in the first place.

    all that being said, defense is still a major issue. We won’t jackshit if we don’t defend
     
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