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View from Rockets vs. Clippers Summer Game

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by LA's #1 Rocket Fan, Jul 19, 2002.

  1. LA's #1 Rocket Fan

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    Alright it’s the Rockets vs. Clippers! Two legitimate teams that are competing for a playoff spot this season. This is an exciting match-up since both of these teams are close in status in the west and both are predicted by the media to make the playoffs this season. This game should prove who will prevail over the other for a playoff spot in the wild western conference. This will be the game to start one teams domination over the other. This is the one game that will show each others strengths and weaknesses! We must win! Ok so I’m dreaming a little. So this game really doesn’t matter much or have substantial material that might help one team beat the other come regular season since practically the whole Clipper team does not feature even one player from last season. But what if all the starters say fouled out in a regular season than this game could give us a preview of who will prevail and be king of the bench warmers! Yep this could happen so we must prove that we can win it with the bench. Come to think of it now this game is vital. So let the game begin!

    Warm-ups. The rockets get out really early to practice and there is about 20mins to game time, I happen to be fortunate enough to be there the whole time. Usually the warm-ups only begin some 5 to 10mins before the game. I don’t know why but I like seeing warm ups cause for me it gives an better estimate of just how well a player can shoot it and how far out and consistent they can be. Of course this is much different during game time situations with the pressure and all but it’s still fun to watch.

    Jason Collier was one of the first maybe four players out there for the Rockets practicing early in the warm-ups. Collier came out and hit 4 straight jumpers from around the ft line. He had a different look to him today. A look I haven’t seen from him. It was a look of power and determination. Before during the other shoot a rounds Collier would look happy, smiling and peaceful and looking a little anxious. This time he didn’t smile, and he came out shooting right away like he wanted to prove he could. And he could, I really didn’t know he could shoot outside so consistently and with range even if it was in warm-ups. He hit a couple of 20fts every now and then and then did his regular practice post up moves such as working on backing up and than taking the turnaround jumpers. He also practice a little spin move to the basket while backing it in. He made this move look effortless at times. It really surprised me that he could move with the ball so well. I caught him looking my way a few times and he just had this Gladiator look like “I have lost everything and now I’m going to get it back” look, real tough looking.

    Oscar Torres was also one of the few early guys out practicing. At times he was the only Rocket out there at one end of the court shooting with a ball boy helping him get rebounds. He started off with a left 10ft jumper that banked in, I though wow his shot must be off badly, than he did it again banking it off there and then again and again moving all the way back to near the left 3pt corner standing maybe only 2 foot from each vertical and horizontal out of bounce line. I couldn’t believe it, I could barely see the backboard if I was standing in his spot let alone where to bank it off of. Though he missed a few he made more than he had miss. Than Torres moved to the 20ft mid left area and hit 5 in a row then missed than hit another 6 in a row than missed than hit another 3 and that was close to maybe 14 of 17 from that area. That was very impressive.

    Now the other rockets start coming to the floor and they start the usual drills, lay-ups, than 10ft jumpers from each side of the ft area than 15ft jumpers, etc. Then they shot around a little, Eddie Griffin missed many of his shots and at most made only 2 in a row from 20ft out. In the other games he would make at least 5 or more. Than they went back to the lay-up drills and this is where it gets a little entertaining. First Fred Johnson instead of laying it up dunks it with two hands with medium force. A few players latter in the lay-ups Kyle Hill dunks it with two hands with medium force than IA throws it off the backboard from about 10ft away and dunks it one handed hard (kind of like a young kemp) and the ball hits the backboard and falls in. A few people in the stands mumble ahhhs. Maybe hearing the ahhhs Kyle Hill on his next turn bounces it off the floor from about 10ft and dunks it two handed with medium force. A few players later, it’s Tito Maddox turn and he from about 10ft throws it off the backboard and dunks it with a ferocious two hand dunk. The crowd goes ahhh and most of the crowd starts watching the Rockets warm-up than the hometown Clippers. Than even Collier gets into it with a 360 spin medium force dunk (he really is just constantly surprising me today). Than Hill, a listed 6-2 point guard for the Rockets in the summer league but really looks 6-0 tall, than bounces the ball from the 3pt line and glides in with such smoothness and takes the ball in mid air and does a 360 medium force dunk. The crowd cheers on whoaaa! Warm-ups end after that.

    Game starters announced Kyle Hill at SG, Tito Maddox at PG, Griffin at PF, IA at SF and Collier at C in that order. Clippers have Sean Colson starting for them.

    1st Quarter -

    Collier jumps for the tip but gets out jumped though the Clipper jumper didn’t hit the ball and the ball falls back to Collier who taps it to Hill. Immediately Collier goes inside and gets strong position directly underneath the basket and gets the pass and puts it up immediately without any other movement from the time he gets the pass. As he runs back I notice that it’s like he has fire in his eyes and runs downs the court like he was on fire. Next play back Collier goes inside once again and gets position right where he was in the last play which is right underneath the basket and gets the pass but passes out this time. A few plays later Maddox and Griffin are the only two players ahead in a fast break and Maddox finds Griffin on the Left wing and Griffin misses the 5ft jumper as a Clipper player cuts him off from a clear lay-up. Next play back Maddox on the right corner of the 3pt line without the ball does a few moves to get free gets right underneath the basket open for about 2secs and gets the pass and right when he gets the pass Maddox passes it as if it bounced off his hands to Collier on the right about 5ft from the basket who ups it up and gets blocked. Next play down Hill gets driving lay-up. Next play down IA misses left corner 3pt shot.

    Clippers get rebound and find their player MB who is wide open for a two hand hard jam and as he dunks the ball he hangs on the rim and shakes his body in a snake like motion (looked really wild and cool like the rim electrocuted him), the crowd goes wild and cheers loudly. A few plays later Collier misses a nice 360 spin move in the post as he moves back than 360s his man and goes to the basket as it goes in and out. Next play down Griffin at about 15ft fakes a pass inside which gets the defender psyched out and then calmly hits the jumper. When the Clippers get the ball back the pass goes to MB, a Clipper player that can either play SF or PF and has a quick first step, MB about 10ft from the basket on the right faces up the basket and moves left than right as Griffin is slow to catch up to him and Griffin fouls him as he gets free from the foul and dunks it hard even though it doesn’t count. Next play back Collier misses a running lay-up running from the right of the court to down the middle(but he is more than ever cutting to the basket in this game than previous summer games). Next Hill hits a ft jumper. Next as Maddox dribbling left than making a hard quick right looses the ball as it bounces off hard off his right leg and Hill gets it and misses a mid right 3pter. Next Griffin saves a pass near the out of bounce line near the basket on a fast break and right when he saves it while leaning far right he pulls it back in from out of bounce and leans far left and makes a lay-up without moving his feet in the process (he is just so flexible with his upper body). Next IA on a fast break gets open down court and Griffin finds him from about the half court line and IA makes the lay-up. Right after that the Clippers miss and IA runs the court again and gets open for the lay-up once again but this time gets fouled in the process and makes 1-1 giving the Rockets a 14-10 lead with 5:33 left in the 1st.

    A few plays later Maddox plays a pick and roll with Griffin on the Left side of the court and as he gets the double team he dribbles right than he dribbles hard right again and really quick hard left with one hand and as he does this the double not only gets lost on him but at the same time when he moved left he passes it over two Clippers to Griffin who gets blocked from the mid left 10ft area ( the move by Maddox was so quick and confusing for the defense as the two Clippers just run into each other). Next play down Collier misses 5ft left jumper from a quick inside pass by Griffin who was standing at the 3pt line (this pass is much like that of Robert Horry to Shaq, very quick and hard but precise on the dot going from high of the ground(from griffin) moving low to the ground to Collier). Back at the Clippers a Clipper gets the ball underneath and Griffin as him covered from the top so the Clipper just jumps right into Griffin and while leaning in the air makes a lay-up (while the Clipper was a guard Griffin‘s feet did not fall back as his body absorbed the impact, he has very strong legs). Back at the Rockets Maddox just blows by his man and the crowd goes ahhh but he misses the floater. Next time down Griffin dribbles in about 5ft and turns around and gets fouled as he goes up for the shot. Back at the Clippers a miss shot rebound is heading for the middle lane while in the air and two Clippers are on each side of it, Griffin is about at the right 15ft area, while the ball descends towards the middle floor Griffin slides right between two Clippers on the right and right between the two clippers on each side of the ball and Griffin goes high with his right higher than his left and gets it as both Clippers converge on him and he breaks free of the conversion but at the same time gets fouled (this all happened in maybe 2secs, it was quick but for some reason it looked very slow motion to me).

    Next play Collier makes a nice lay-up while cutting to the basket from a IA pass. Next play Maddox gets a traveling call of a nice drive inside that got him free. Next play down Hill with the ball on the mid left area and then all of a sudden Griffin who looks like he’s just running in for position jumps sky high and the alley opp pass is thrown in and Griffin gets it and dunks it hard and while on the rim twist his body around with both legs bent high in the air to move him from facing the Rockets basket direction to facing the Clippers basket direction when he lands (similar to a young Charles Barkley w Philadelphia dunk). It gets the crowd in a uproar of Cheers. The cheers continue all the way back to the Clippers basket as they walk it down and call timeout. 21-20 Rockets up with 1:43 to go in the 1st. Griffin goes out of the game and goes in to the locker room with trainer Keith Jones. Clippers have the ball and the Clipper guard does some really fancy dribbling for a few seconds and as he drives in IA just knocks the ball off of him but the Clippers save it. Next play down Hill misses a shot and Collier aggressively goes after the rebound running in with two hands snatching it out of the air and lays it back up for 2 with a reverse. Next play Maddox gets the ball and drives in from the right to the middle and gets the double but as he drives in he passes it to Fred Johnson who takes the shot from the left 10ft area and gets blocked as the Clipper player just blocks it down to the ground so hard that it bounces back up and hits Johnson in the butt and goes out of bounce. With only a few seconds left the clippers get the ball at the ft line and hit as the buzzer sounds. End of 1st. 25-23 Clippers up.

    2nd Quarter -

    Clipper’s ball to start. The Clippers guard drives in for a lay-up and IA just blocks it back down. Back down to the Rockets Brown drives to the ft line stops there, spins 360 as a Clipper flies by him and as Brown comes back to face the basket takes the jumper but misses and then gets the ball back and hits a 15ft jumper from the right that banks in. Next time back Brown gets the ball stolen from a slap and the Clippers use up the 24sec for a violation. Next time down Brown finds Ike N who misses a 15ft mid right jumper. Next Torres misses a ft jumper as he was pushed by a Clipper, back to the Clippers Torres stays calm and quiet and defends as a timeout is called, Torres just calmly walks up to the refs and talks about how he was fouled but smiles and looks like he speaks in a reasonable peaceful manner (like a student talking to his professor).

    Brown finds IN underneath between two players as IN makes the reverse as the ball hangs on the top of the rim for a couple of seconds and falls in. Next time down Brown misses the lay-up underneath. Next Torres makes a right 10ft jumper. Next play down Brown called for travel as he carries the ball. Next time down IN travels as he spins 360. Next Torres misses 20ft jumper from the middle. Next Johnson air balls a 3pter from the mid left. Next Brown misses a lay-up after a nice drive by his man. As the Clippers run a fast break after this play one Clipper is going one on one from the right and pops a 15ft from the right as the ball goes up, out of nowhere Torres like a cat leaning back for an attack just jumps up with both hands in the air and the ball bounces off his hands like hitting a wall. Right back down Torres gets the ball back and runs straight down the middle and makes the lay-up and gets fouled as the crowd cheers for him on his block on the Clippers court, he hits 1-1. Next time down Torres dribbles between his man about 2 times then shakes and bakes his player dribbling from left to right and takes a 15ft jumper from the right but gets blocked.

    Next play back IN gets the pass with 5secs remaining on the shot clock and the coaches and players yell to him shot and they start calling out 3-2-1 then he shoots it and gets fouled but misses the shot and hits 2-2. Next play down Danny Fife gets an offensive rebound from about the ft line and drives by a IN screen and gets fouled and hits 1-2. Next play down Brown drives by 2 defenders and pops a 15ft jumper but gets rejected. Next time down Brown gets blocked again shooting a mid right 15ft. Next time down with 2.5secs left on the game clock the inbound goes to Brown again and he drives by 2 players than stops about at the top of the key and pops a leaning forward 3pter that hits nothing but net as the buzzer sounds. End of 2nd Quarter. 41-37 Clippers up.

    Halftime - Rockets come out to practice after only maybe 2mins after the 2nd. Griffin returns and in warm-ups hits 6 straight 3pters from the top of the key. IA practices only 3pt shots also. Collier still has that tough demeanor look (so scary that I did not want to look at him when he glanced over at my section and I turned my head quickly in an opposite direction). Colson talks to Brown and Griffin as they exchange hugs. Morris sits on the bench in street clothes and does not play. Many people dancing in the stands including Clippers Head Coach who is bopping his head to the song I’m the real Slim Shady. Sorry didn’t mean to get off track back to the topic!

    3rd Quarter -

    Rockets first possession Maddox drives down the middle from the Left than passes it directly behind him as he sets the block on two defenders trying to get in back of him, the pass goes to Collier who hits the 15ft jumper from the middle. Back to the Clippers a player gets it underneath and puts it up but misses and he gets the rebound back then puts it up again and Griffin blocks it back down but it goes right back to him and he goes back up again and Griffin rejects it again this time hitting it to Hill. Back to the Rockets Maddox drives in from the right to the middle and at the same time passing it to an open Griffin who hesitates for a second and passes it to IA who misses a middle 3pter. Next play back Collier gets underneath and hits a lay-up. Next play down Hill finds Griffin on a fast break for the lay-up.

    Next IA misses an inbound pass to him from the left 10ft area. Next Griffin misses a 10ft jumper so badly that it doesn’t hit the rim. Next play back IA backs in dishes to a cutting Collier who is running straight down the middle for the lay-up. Next Hill finds Griffin for the 10ft jumper from the right that banks in. Next time down Griffin does the fast pass inside to Collier who air balls a lay-up as he runs down the middle it just one foot to short. Next play back Maddox is calling IA to come to him for a pass but IA doesn’t know what Maddox is saying and Maddox gets the ball stolen and ends up fouling the Clipper player that hits the lay-up and one. Next play down Collier is calling for the pass and Hill finds him 5ft in front of the basket as he gets the pass two Clippers hit him like a sandwich from the front and back but Collier makes the jumper and gets the foul going 1-1. 5:55 to go and its 54-50 Clippers up.

    Maddox drives in and finds a open Griffin at the mid left 3pt area who misses the shot but Collier gets the rebound and lays it up immediately for 2. Back at the Clippers Griffin is just moving his hands all over the lane and gets a block on a Clipper in the paint. Back to the Rockets Griffin gets the ball at the top of the key, drives in to the ft line and misses the jumper. Next time down Hill hits a 15ft mid left jumper that ties the game up at 58 at 1:38 to go. Next time down Griffin hesitates pumping the ball up once than misses a 20ft mid left jumper off a feed from Maddox. Next time down Maddox gets fouled drive in and hits 2-2. Next time down Maddox knowing the clock air balls a 3pter with the buzzer sounding and that ends the 3rd. 60 all tied up.

    4th Quarter -

    Rockets ball to open, Torres misses a lay-up underneath from another quick pass inside from Griffin. Next time back Maddox finds Griffin on the fast break for a floater from 5ft out. Next time down Griffin misses off a move to the right then left 5ft area, but IN gets the rebound but goes down hard with a loud thump as he hits the floor. Next play Griffin on another fast break misses the 10ft jumper and again IN gets the offensive rebound and at the same time slams it in one hand with force. Next play Maddox is fouled in the lane and hits 2-2. Next Torres to IN who lays it in while running very quickly for this fast break and keeps running after he lays it up to avoid tipping over had he stopped. Torres gets a jump ball over at the Clippers end, gets the tip and it goes down court quickly and later gets to Griffin with only 1 second left pops for a 15ft jumper from the mid left, the ball bounces of the rim and goes up about 5ft before dropping back down and in without touching the rim. Many in the crowd say he was lucky esp. with the clock at 1sec left when he shot it.

    Next Torres misses a 3pter from the mid left but a tip gets it back to Torres in the same spot and Torres nails the 2 attempted 3pter from that spot. Maddox misses 5ft jumper, Torres rebounds the miss and hits the 2. Next play Maddox hits a middle lay-up with a quick drive. Next Maddox gets called for 8sec half court inbounds as he just steps over with one foot. Next play Maddox finds Griffin open who misses the 3pter from the mid left area. 79-68 Rockets up with 3:43 to go. Next Fife makes 3pt but is called out of bounce so it doesn't count. Next play Griffin is called out of bounce as he is underneath the basket. Next play down Griffin misses a 20fter from the right. Next play down Griffin gets the inbound and runs it up to the half court and passes it straight to the hands of a Clippers. 79-73 Rockets up with 1:55 to go. Clippers ball and inbound to MB of the Clippers who hits a long 2pt while stepping on the 3pt line. 79-75 Rockets up with 1:10 to go. Next play Maddox misses badly a mid right jumper but IN gets the offensive board and as he is puts it up it doesn’t hit rim and the Rockets are called for the 24 sec violation. Clippers Colson speeds by 3 Rockets and hits the lay-up making it 79-77 with 56secs to go.

    Next play down Griffin gets a quick pass at the ft line and hits the ft jumper making it 81-77 with 50secs to go and Rockets up by 4. Clippers miss and at the Rockets Griffin misses a 5ft turnaround mid left area. It’s still 81-77 with 14.6secs to go. Clippers timeout. Inbound by the Clippers to MB who hits a reverse lay-up driving in from the left of the 3pt line to the middle. 81-79 Rockets up with 10.2secs left. Maddox immediately fouled on the inbound. Penalty situation, free throw time. Maddox misses both 0-2. Clippers timeout with 9.0secs remaining on the game clock. Clipper’s MB air balls a right corner 3pter, IN rebounds and is immediately fouled. IN hits 1-2 and it’s 82-79 with 5.3secs remaining, Rockets up by 3. Clippers get the inbound to Colson who air balls a 3pt of the right middle area. End of Game. We won, yeahhh.

    Thoughts - This game the Rockets must have a play where they get the PGs directly under the basket as many times they were there and getting the pass with quick consistency from the outside from either the SGs or SFs. Once the PGs are there they decide quickly whether to take the shot or pass it. It seems that once the PG is there either the C or PF will rush in or cut in the lane for the pass or rebound. Alot of the plays are just to get the PGs to dribble in and get the double than pass it out to the open man. Not much plays are being used for the SF position at least set up wise IMO in this game. The SF is getting his points off of fast breaks and cuts.

    As for the summer games IMO unlike the games in the NBA, wins and losses matter but in these games to me it really doesn't have a meaning in terms of a team winning or loosing, but does have meaning in terms of how these players played in terms of teamwork and situations whether it be winning or loosing to measure it's true sucess. Though I'm sure some might disagree with me 100%. That being said I feel while scoring is important I think it is how a player gets his shots that are important to scouts and coaches in these games than how many points a player gets. Also what they do on the court in terms of team play or just overall ablilites. Like for Griffin he has gone against true NBA players in these Games. He's gone against Gooden, widely acknowlegde as the most capable of the Rookie Forwards, Stoudemire, who one NBA scout has said he thinks Stoudemire is so good that he could get a few double doubles sometimes in games this season if he gets the playing time, and Mark Madsen who isn't your average PF bench warmer, the guy hussles as much as anyone out there on the court. Griffin is displaying something that more than half the regular NBA PF starters can't do and that's shoot outside, esp in the 20ft+ area. He has hit it very consistantly so far and this is what makes him very valuable and rare (why people praise his game). He is scoring alot of points but about half of them are outside which makes that impressive. He has shown that he wants to play inside and has shown that he can take the inside shot on post up moves and turnarounds on true NBA aggressive players in these games (he has deffinitely not been the stronger of his position in these games but still manages to get by). He is also doing things other than scoring such as display his tenacious rebounding ability and his lethal Blocking ability in the paint agianst guys that are just as talented. These things show how he can he effective in teamwork. He's also moving around getting open and getting position which is something that stats can never tell. He's displaying his quickness to the loose balls and quickness at getting passes inside to players underneath the basket, also something that stats can't say. I just like to say that stats really don't show just how well a player plays in these games. Or how bad they did in these games.

    Just my opinion and nothing more : )
     
    #1 LA's #1 Rocket Fan, Jul 19, 2002
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2002
  2. LA's #1 Rocket Fan

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    Just some thoughts on the players

    Eddie Griffin - 18points. Was hitting the15ft and out set shots with consistency but is having a hard time making the 5-10ft jumpers, might be rushing them a tad too early. Didn’t really play much in the first half after a sensational dunk. Once an opponent player gets in the lane, Griffin becomes a very determined shot blocker. Moving around without the ball much more. Getting great at positioning on rebounds boxing out and getting in front of players on the offense. His feet don’t loose position once they are set. His arms are always high and up on defense once his player gets the ball making it very hard if not impossible to stay in one place and shoot. When he misses a couple of shots he becomes a little more hesitating to shoot it right away but still takes the shot. Can shoot it anywhere and doesn’t look like he has a real comfort area except anywhere along the 20ft and out. Getting so good at passing inside with crisp quick passes. Driving in more but stops usually at around 10ft or the ft line to pop a jumper rather than go all the way. Usually dribbles about 1 to 3 bounces.

    Tierre Brown - Quick first step that can usually take his man by surprise. Great at getting inside but not the best at making the lay-up. Doesn’t really have a backup plan once he’s taken off for the middle in that if the lane is cut off he will usually have to stop there for a sec and start looking for someone to pass it to. Plays the pick and roll very well. In this game when he was going in to pass out it looked too obvious as he slows down and looks around to passes. Has an 10-15ft jumper that can be consistent as he can hit it sometimes back to back in these games.

    Tito Maddox - 8 points. Still not the best dribbler that he can be loosing the ball of his foot or getting travel calls. But he is doing a great job of driving inside and drawing the defense to create shots. It’s almost like he knows who will come double because he passes it out quickly to the open man as he drives in. If the double doesn’t happen he’s taking it to the rim. Good at knowing the clock. He’s really great at drawing the double almost like he loves it and gets close to other defenders to draw it like bait. Has no problem getting it to the open player once the double it there. Once he drives in there is no who can really tell what he will do as he doesn’t really look in the direction of the player he passes it to. Not even close to being half consistent in his shot. Has been working on it in the warm-ups and his hitting a few 20fters but not nearly enough to make them. Has quickness but uses his size to push off defenders and get by. Defense very well, just keeps with his man no matter where he goes or how many screens he has to get by, doesn’t let go (almost like a shadow). His defense really isn’t going for steals or blocks just making the sure that his man doesn’t get by him or in front of him. Did have a couple of problems setting things up today like letting everyone know where to be or what play was being used which slowed down the offense a bit and got him turnovers.

    Oscar Torres - Great on defense in that he has great instincts on when to go for steals and blocks but doesn’t really hold his man esp. off of screens. His defensive instincts are quick like a cat in attack. Good shooter well out to the 3pt area. Doesn’t really force shots just lets them come to him in that he doesn’t call for shots much and when he gets passes, if he’s not open on the perimeter he usually wont pop or drive by his man, only really takes shots when he has adequate spacing or if he’s cutting to the basket. Once he gets to the basket he takes it up strong and hard. Seems to be a smart player in terms of where to be and what to do. Has really displayed his overall abilities out there.

    Jason Collier - Aggressive today and very active around the rim. Cut to the basket numerous of times and really looked to rebound and score. Still needs to work on his jumpers but really is missing most of them because he rushes them or hesitates too much on them. If he can take just a little more time on his shot he might hit many more. Really has be working on scoring 5-10ft from the basket rather than taking 15-20ft jumpers which he hasn’t done much of lately. Is having a hard time backing it in against other Cs.

    Sorry again if it's long : )
     
  3. X-PAC

    X-PAC Contributing Member

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    Wish I could compliment this post more but I really appreciate the breakdown of the game LA's #1 Rocket Fan. Much appreciated thanks.
     
  4. DearRock

    DearRock Contributing Member

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    Thank you once again. I had some difficulty after you took some days off. You were missed. I hope you are in for the distance, that is, the rest of all the games. Once again thanks.

    I feel our roster is all set. Where do you put the team now in the west? Top five?
     
  5. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    I think you might actually qualify for West Coast's #1 Rocket Fan :)

    Thanks a lot for the game review
     
  6. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the play by play and especially for your observations of the players strengths and weaknesses.

    You description of Brown is that he has 2 guard skills in a point guard body.

    Tito on the other hand displays PG skills and a need for work on his shot. He also appears to have effective defensive skills which we all know are at a premium on this team.

    Thanks again.
     
  7. DearRock

    DearRock Contributing Member

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    Okierock, Brown's haul of assists suggest the presence of pg skills.
     
  8. moomoo

    moomoo Member

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    Pardon my ignorance please, but who is "MB" for the Clippers?
     
  9. LA's #1 Rocket Fan

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    X-PAC - Thanks I appreciate that complement : )

    DearRock - I definitely will try to make the most of the rest of the games, I miss monday and tuesday game due to summer school and I actually cut class to make last nights game, I just couldn't stand knowing that the Rockets where playing while I'm sitting in class listening to my english proffesor tells me to write what I feel I believe in and felt I could prove, so I believe in the Rockets and felt like going to the game to prove it so I just did it : ) (I'm sure this isn't what he meant though). But definitely if there is even the smallest chance that I can make the games I will : )

    pippendagimp - Thanks but I have some major competition just here in LA lately as I notice many Rocket Fans here at the games, I might have to change my name because they are just as great of a fan and I really respect everyone here that is a Rocket fan in LA : ) I just love that theres others out there at these games, It's so great to know that when I'm cheering I'm not the only one. Many wear Francis jerseys, Rocket hats or Rocket T-shirts. Once I get an income I will definitely join them and get some new Rocket Gear as my only Rocket T-shirt is a 95 Champion one and it is a bit out of date and also a little faded. I have a polo shirt with the old Rocket logo on the upper left corner embrodered but I cherish it too much to wear it.

    okierock - I sure many people might disagree with me on what I'm about to say on the Brown and Maddox skill issue but I'll just say it as just an opinion of mine. I think the Rockets are looking for skills and ablilites more than stats. Sorry what I mean is that I think the rockets are looking at how a player get's his points than how many points a player gets. If you look at Brown for instance, he is playing against players of much lower caliber than those opponents that Griffin is going against at his position. Brown is obviously much quicker than these guys so he gets by them in a blaze of quickness getting to the rim. But if he was going to try this against say a rookie like Jay Williams, or a less higher drafted rookie like Wagner or maybe a Bench warmer like the Clippers Dooling I seriously doubt he could get by them at will as he has done in these summer games. When he gets the ball back in a half court set he only looks to take the shot or drive in even when he is covered than keep passing to find the open man. Though he is good at getting in and making layups he is displaying what any NBA guard can do in these summer games which is drive in agianst weaker competition and make the layups. What he hasn't proven that other NBA PGs can do is run a team, find open players, make outside shots consistantly and get teamates involved. I think Brown is very talented (I do like the guy) but I just don't see how he can get serious mins as a NBA point on this team if heathy. What I think the Rockets are looking at is what the player does on the court than what he gets on paper. If you look at Brown in terms of paper, his assist are high, he's had at least 2+ 7 assist games in these summer games. Looking at those numbers one might assume he's a Kidd out there (finding open players or running the break with great court vision) but if you watched him play he's not getting the offense going quick and many times the clock is at 5 before anyone takes a shot. He's getting a ton of assist off Griffin on the pick and roll which Griffin is shooting at an unbelieveable percentage from the floor (something like 70%). He's getting assist of bad plays such as running in to defense underneath and stopping than having no option to score he has to find someone out there who takes the shot because the clock is ticking down. This is not what I call a play or getting your teamates involved. This is one reason why I though Colson was cut last season because he also didn't try and run things and he also got most of his points in the paint than on the perimeter which most guards will have to do in the NBA. Brown definitely would not score as much if he didn't get by everyone in these games with his quickness and get in the lane. In the NBA Brown is going to have to rely on his shooting touch outside to get a real chance to score and he hasn't really proven he can shoot consistently from the perimeter esp outside of 10-15ft. He needs to prove he can make the 20ft shots and make them consistently. I haven't even seen him take many 3pts either not that he has too but it would seem that it would be important in the Rockets offense. Maddox while not the most effective at handling or dribbling the ball as of late and Brown is clearly the more skilled, Maddox is displaying what I feel coaches like to know, which is if he is capable of gettting shots for teamates, or does he have the mentality to do so and display it. He may not do a good job or even an average job so far but he is showing (flashes) that he can at times and that he can find the open player off of quick drives (while getting the double team and blocking off the defense for the open shot by his teamates). He's also displaying his disire in stopping his opponent in full court pressure and aggressive defense. Though he might not make in on these skills he is displaying his overall abilities and what he can do to as of teamwork. This is the difference between these two again just IMO though.

    moomoo - This MB guy, I think his name is something like Matice Bateer or close to that. He has been the flat out best player on the Clippers team other than the regular players that make a few game apperences such as Q Richardson or Corey Maggette, or Miles. He's solid and very athletic. I have watched him some and he gets open on his speed and quickness, he loves to dunk with flare when he gets the chance, not really consistent from outside but can get hot and hit a few in a quarter of consecutive plays, he uses his upper strength to push off players when he drives in, drives in with a quick step and determination, very active on rebounds and moves around very well without the ball. He might make a NBA team but I seriously doubt he gets significant mins such as 15-20 mins a game. Could be a good reserve in case of injury.

    Thanks again all!
     
  10. DearRock

    DearRock Contributing Member

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    LA, I have to dissagree with you. I have not seen Maddox play so I cannot defend him but I have seen Brown play against NBA players during the regular season. What he is doing now is not the easiest thing to do in the world. Notwithstanding the quality of the competition which included Joe Johnson, Jacobsen and Arenas, he still has to make the shots which he does. I think the most difficult thing for many pg's to do is to get into the paint. He was able to do it during the regular season and is proven he can do it more now and will continue to improve. Do not down play the success he has had with the pick and roll. That is, or should be, one of the rockets bread and butter plays. Not everybody masters that play. He seem to be a very dangerous player and we would have appreciated him a lot more if our team was not already so blessed at the position. He is probably the quickest player of the real Rockets roster.

    At this point he may be as good a find as our pick of Mobes a few years ago. The difference was Mobes did not meet the same quality of guys ahead of him as Brown did. He may just be a gem, folks. I do not have a problem with a scoring pg.

    I know I may be going overboard but I am so high on this guy both offensive and defensively that I would, based on his presence alone, reduce Francis pg duties and increase Francis' time and og. It seems as far as pg skills are concerned the drop off to Brown from Steve is a lot less than the drop off from Mobes to Torres.

    I would allocate pg minutes as follows Francis - 24; Moochie 16 and Brown 8. The entire 48 mins can be and should be a very intense and active 48 mins on both sides of the ball. We have a chance to dominate the entire league at the point guard position, including Dallas.
     
  11. Col. Crap

    Col. Crap Member

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    Ayy, muchas gracias!!
     
  12. moomoo

    moomoo Member

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    Thanks for the info, LA.
     
  13. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    I saw Tierre a ton of times in college

    he seems to get ahead of himself at times, but not many people can stay in front of him either...

    not a... natural passer but is obviously getting better
    his jumper is money

    I REALLY hope he makes the team...
     
  14. smoothie

    smoothie Contributing Member

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    who else found this thread incredibly hard to read?
     
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I really appreciated the information, LA's #1, but you might use some indentation next time. Keep bringing the info flow! :)
     
  16. LA's #1 Rocket Fan

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    DearRock - I very much respect your view and I can see some of your points as valid arguements in Brown's defense. I know he has the skills to be a good passer but in these games he's not looking to pass which I think he should. In terms of Handling and dribbling he is much better than Maddox which I think is very good but he's not looking to create much. In these games he does the same plays over each game but I'd like to see him do other things to improve on his overall game such as finding the open player rather than constantly driving the lane for layups.

    I agree with you though on the point that he is very good at getting inside and this is one very good strength to have but with his handling skills and driving skills and his quickness he could be really good at creating from double teams if he tried. My point is that in the NBA he is going to have to do more than this to increase his mins as a PG on the Rockets and I do believe that he does have the skills to do so but not the effort yet.

    Earlier I said that he might not get much playing time on the Rockets if the team stayed healthy. What I mean is that what Brown brings is what Francis and Moochie also brings and that's scoring. What I think they don't bring is defense and quicker creating. This is why I think the Rockets where interested in Maddox. I do believe that Brown is much more talented than Maddox but he's not doing the things that I think the Rockets are looking for IMO. I do believe that Brown is a gem too and if he was on another NBA team such as the Clippers he has just a good a chance to play as many mins as anyone IMO including K. Dooling who is their best point as of now. If he continues to develop overall than he might get more mins but if he only displays his driving abilities than he's not going to get any playing time over Moochie if Francis is healthy. I truely believe that if he was just a little taller he could be one heck of a backup shooting guard right now. His game and style very much reminds me of a Bobby Jackson but with less of an outside game but with just as much explosion.

    He is quick and I know he has the quickness to get by some NBA PGs but in these summer games I'm sure most of the PGs in the NBA can get to the rim just as effectively as Brown has consistently even if they are not as quick as him. Even though he can get to the rim at will in these summer games I just like to see him do more as a PG or other things he would have to do to get more playing time in the NBA as his quickness to the rim is not always going to be effective in a season game as his competition will be much more on a peer to peer level. I guess I'm just saying I like to see him be more ready or prepared for the NBA and use these games to improve his overall game than use his already NBA ready quickness to the rim on players of less competition. I like to see him take advantage of these games as to increase his skills at creating than see him take advantage over a much weaker PG opponent (in some ways it's kind of like if Taylor was playing in these summer games and just scoring constantly at will but not working on increasing his rebounding or defense). Sorry if I sounded as if I was dull with his play or downplaying his quickness, I do think he is very talented and has the skills to improve.

    If the Rockets had to choose between Brown and Maddox as a backup PG, I'm almost sure that the Rockets would rather have Brown as his skills are just many levels over Maddox who is just not ready. IMO Maddox has very much potiential and has shown flashes of true natural point guard talents but his situation is similar to say Kwame Brown in that he needs alot of time and experience before he can ever be effective. If say one of our PGs where to be unable to play in a game I would say that Maddox right now would not be able to hold up as a backup but Brown is able to play well and has proven that he can. I just like Maddox for display of glymises of his natural talent and his mentality to get his teamates involved, but his skills are just not up to par to the NBA yet.

    By the way DearRock it's great having a discussion with you on our different views. I deffinitely find yours interesting in all your post around the BBS and very much repsect it : )

    Col. Crap - muy bien mi amigo : )

    moomoo - sure thing : )

    lpbman - In these games there has not been a quicker player to the rim with the ball IMO than Brown that I've watched.

    smoothie - Sorry english is not my first language and as most can tell my english writing skills is not as good but I try the best I can : )

    Deckard - Thanks, I will try those indentation things sometime.
     
  17. Trader Dan

    Trader Dan Member

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    Is this MB-guy, "Matice Bateer", the same as Menk Bateer of the Denver Nuggets? If that is so, this is the third part of the great wall of china. He sounds good in your analysis.
     
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