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Venezuela Protests

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by robbie380, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    In the grand scheme of things...the people of Venezuela.
     
  2. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    My own personal theory is the CIA actively works against leftist governments in the Western Hemisphere and in conjunction the former oil-igarchs and major oil companies that had assets appropriated, have sabotaged the Chavez/Maduro regime at every turn, to the point of fomenting the 2002 and present coups attempts.

    Combine that with a major crash in oil prices, in a one commodity country, and it makes it pretty easy for the neo-cons to claim "See, socialism always fails!"

    You've got several major Gulf Coast refineries that only run on heavy crude (they'll howl if you boycott Venezuela). You've got 250 Billion barrels in the ground worth over a trillion dollars. Given the US's history of exploitation and regime change in Central and South America, I don't think it's too outrageous to think we are witnessing a ramped up covert attack: press, propaganda, astro-turfed revolutionaies etc.

    But, there is no way to know till it's over. Then, if the fatcats get a lot fatter, you know.
     
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Generally happy about the developments in Venezuela and that the US is recognizing the opposition president. I do not want us to be doing anything else to interfere though, and I don't think Trump saying all options are on the table is helpful. It won't help the stability of the new government if it can be painted as an American implant.
     
  4. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    https://globalnews.ca/news/4890495/canada-venezuela-juan-guaido-secret-talks/

    I meant to post this the other day but it breaks down what Guaidó had to do to build a coalition. The videos at the link are good too.


    Canada played key role in secret talks against Venezuela’s Maduro

    The coalition of Latin American governments that joined the U.S. in quickly recognizing Juan Guaido as Venezuela’s interim president came together over weeks of secret diplomacy that included whispered messages to activists under constant surveillance and a high-risk foreign trip by the opposition leader challenging President Nicolas Maduro for power, those involved in the talks said.

    In mid-December, Guaido quietly traveled to Washington, Colombia and Brazil to brief officials on the opposition’s strategy of mass demonstrations to coincide with Maduro’s expected swearing-in for a second term on Jan. 10 in the face of widespread international condemnation, according to exiled former Caracas Mayor Antonio Ledezma, an ally.

    Playing a key role behind the scenes was Lima Group member Canada, whose Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland spoke to Guaido the night before Maduro’s swearing-in ceremony to offer her government’s support should he confront the socialist leader, the Canadian official said. Also active was Colombia, which shares a border with Venezuela and has received more than two million migrants fleeing economic chaos, along with Peru and Brazil’s new far-right President Jair Bolsonaro.

    To leave Venezuela, he sneaked across the lawless border with Colombia, so as not to raise suspicions among immigration officials who sometimes harass opposition figures at the airport and bar them from traveling abroad, said a different anti-government leader, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss security arrangements.

    Building consensus in the fragmented anti-government coalition proved to be an uphill battle. The opposition has for years been divided by egos and strategy, as well as a government crackdown that has sent several prominent leaders into exile, making face-to-face meetings impossible. Others inside Venezuela were being heavily watched by intelligence agencies, and all were concerned about tipping off the government.

    Long sessions of encrypted text messaging became the norm, the opposition leader said. A U.S. official said intermediaries were used to deliver messages to Guaido’s political mentor and opposition power broker Leopoldo Lopez, who is under house arrest after he tried and failed to lead a mass uprising against Maduro in 2014. The U.S. official spoke on condition of anonymity out of security concerns.

    Despite Guaido’s personal assurances in Bogota that he would declare himself interim president at a Jan. 23 rally coinciding with the anniversary of the 1958 coup that ended Venezuela’s military dictatorship, the suspense lasted until the hours before the announcement, said a Latin American diplomat from the Lima Group who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Some moderate factions were left in the dark or wanted to go slower, worrying that a bold move would lead to another failure for the opposition. In the end, those differences were smoothed over internally, without any public discord.

    “This is the first time in at least five years the opposition has shown an ability to come together in any meaningful manner,” said a senior Canadian official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk publicly.

    The decision to confront Maduro directly was only possible because of strong support from the Trump administration, which led a chorus of mostly conservative Latin American governments that immediately recognized Guaido.

    It was no small diplomatic feat, given the mistrust of the U.S. in Latin America due to the painful memories stemming from U.S. military interventions in the region during the Cold War. The tough-handed approach drew bipartisan support, with two of the Senate’s most senior Democrats, Dick Durbin and Bob Menendez, offering praise.

    The watershed moment was U.S. President Donald Trump’s stunning remark in August 2017 from the steps of his New Jersey golf club that a “military option” was on the table to deal with the Venezuelan crisis.

    In the weeks that followed, Trump went on to strongly condemn Maduro in his address to the U.N. General Assembly as well as quietly press aides and some Latin American leaders about a military invasion of the country.

    From then on, countries in the region realized they had a partner in the U.S. willing to tackle a crisis that had been years in the making but which previous U.S. administrations had chosen to play down because of limited national security implications, said Fernando Cutz, a former senior national security adviser on Latin America to both President Barack Obama and Trump.

    For some, especially Mexico, which was renegotiating NAFTA, adopting a more aggressive stance was also an opportunity to gain leverage in bilateral relations with the Trump administration.

    “Trump has personally sparked a lot of this,” said Cutz, now with the Cohen Group, a Washington consulting firm. “Literally in every interaction that he has had with Latin American leaders since taking office, he brings up Venezuela. That has forced a lot of hands.”

    On Jan. 4 — a day before Guaido was sworn in as national assembly president — foreign ministers from 13 nations of the Lima Group, which doesn’t include the U.S., said they wouldn’t recognize Maduro’s second term.

    That set off a scramble at the White House to make sure it wasn’t being left behind, said a former U.S. official and congressional staffer who was in close contact with the national security council. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to discuss the administration’s planning.
     
    jcf and Buck Turgidson like this.
  5. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    Craft a narrative and stand by it without question and without nuance. How Trumpian of you. :D
     
  6. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    Turkey is heavily invested into Maduro as well. This clearly isn't Syria, but it is funny to that they are a player here as well.
     
  7. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  9. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    My gosh... this admin is so incompetent when it comes to foreign affairs...

     
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  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  12. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    It was so ridiculous that I want to hope he did that on purpose while playing 4-D chess but Bolton is a ****ing clown. I thought Mnuchin explained everything pretty well and then Bolton started blabbing about security threats with Cuba and Iran in Venezuela and it’s like man what the **** are you even talking about.

    The whole operation has been executed pretty flawlessly so far (outside of that Bolton deal) in my eyes fwiw.
     
  13. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    couldn't find anything to verify that tweet so i took it down.
     
    #113 robbie380, Jan 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  14. Cokebabies

    Cokebabies Contributing Member

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    My personal theory is that Bolton intentionally "leaked" the 5,000 troops bit to see the US media and public's reaction as a bellwether for our appetite for military intervention in Venezuela. Venezuela has tons of oil and a regime that is not in our pocket, which is pretty much the same setup as Iraq before we went in and killed Saddam.
     
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  15. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    It's actually very much nothing at all like Iraq.
     
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  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Kind of a weird way to go about doing that when Trump could just tweet it like he does every other boneheaded idea that comes out of this administration.

    I don’t think anyone is shocked to see that Trump and co. are all about starting a war in Central or South America. It’s totally on brand and they’ll do it in a heartbeat if they can get away with it with Republicans in Congress.

    Iraq actually had a conceivable (but lied about) national security threat. I cannot see any way they can sell this one although Republicans can justify just about anything Trump does nowadays so who knows. It wouldn’t surprise me the least bit if it happens.
     
  17. CometsWin

    CometsWin Honorary 99’er
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    Trashy cartoons now! Mojo is descending.
     
  18. Senator

    Senator Member

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    What are you so insecure about? Do you or anyone you speak to on a weekly basis make significantly more than 10 million a year?
     
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Scary way to run foreign affairs... leaking out to troll the media. Since members of the press and even the American public are not the only one that sees those note pads. Further more, it creates (further substantiates?) the impression that our various part of the admin, intelligence, and military leadership are not on the same page. Don't think that impression benefits the United States.
     
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