1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Understanding A 10 Dimensional Universe

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Rocket River, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,253
    Likes Received:
    28,757
    https://futurism.com/understanding-10-dimensional-universe/

    When someone mentions “different dimensions,” we tend to think of things like parallel universes — alternate realities that exist parallel to our own, but where things work or happened differently. However, the reality of dimensions and how they play a role in the ordering of our Universe is really quite different from this popular characterization.

    To break it down, dimensions are simply the different facets of what we perceive to be reality. We are immediately aware of the three dimensions that surround us on a daily basis – those that define the length, width, and depth of all objects in our universes (the x, y, and z axes, respectively).

    Beyond these three visible dimensions, scientists believe that there may be many more. In fact, the theoretical framework of Superstring Theory posits that the universe exists in ten different dimensions. These different aspects are what govern the universe, the fundamental forces of nature, and all the elementary particles contained within.

    The first dimension, as already noted, is that which gives it length (aka. the x-axis). A good description of a one-dimensional object is a straight line, which exists only in terms of length and has no other discernible qualities. Add to it a second dimension, the y-axis (or height), and you get an object that becomes a 2-dimensional shape (like a square).

    The third dimension involves depth (the z-axis), and gives all objects a sense of area and a cross-section. The perfect example of this is a cube (looking at the above image may help), which exists in three dimensions and has a length, width, depth, and hence volume. Beyond these three lie the seven dimensions which are not immediately apparent to us, but which can be still be perceived as having a direct effect on the universe and reality as we know it.

    GETTING TO KNOW THE OTHER DIMENSIONS:
    Scientists believe that the fourth dimension is time (we already know this one, for the most part), which governs the properties of all known matter at any given point. Along with the three other dimensions, knowing an object’s position in time is essential to plotting its position in the universe. The other dimensions are where the deeper possibilities come into play, and explaining their interaction with the others is where things get particularly tricky for physicists.

    According to String Theory, the fifth and sixth dimensions are where the notion of possible worlds arises. If we could see on through to the fifth dimension, we would see a world slightly different from our own that would give us a means of measuring the similarity and differences between our world and other possible ones.

    [​IMG]
    Image source
    In the sixth, we would see a plane of possible worlds, where we could compare and position all the possible universes that start with the same initial conditions as this one (i.e. the Big Bang). In theory, if you could master the fifth and sixth dimension, you could travel back in time or go to different futures.

    In the seventh dimension, you have access to the possible worlds that start with different initial conditions. Whereas in the fifth and sixth, the initial conditions were the same and subsequent actions were different, here, everything is different from the very beginning of time. The eighth dimension again gives us a plane of such possible universe histories, each of which begins with different initial conditions and branches out infinitely (hence why they are called infinities).

    In the ninth dimension, we can compare all the possible universe histories, starting with all the different possible laws of physics and initial conditions. In the tenth and final dimension, we arrive at the point in which everything possible and imaginable is covered. Beyond this, nothing can be imagined by us lowly mortals, which makes it the natural limitation of what we can conceive in terms of dimensions.

    MAKING SENSE OF THE THEORY:
    The existence of these additional six dimensions which we cannot perceive is necessary for String Theory in order for their to be consistency in nature. The fact that we can perceive only four dimensions of space can be explained by one of two mechanisms: either the extra dimensions are compactified on a very small scale, or else our world may live on a 3-dimensional submanifold corresponding to a brane, on which all known particles besides gravity would be restricted (aka. brane theory).

    [​IMG]
    The existence of extra dimensions is explained using the Calabi-Yau manifold, in which all the intrinsic properties of elementary particles are hidden. Credit: A Hanson
    If the extra dimensions are compactified, then the extra six dimensions must be in the form of a Calabi–Yau manifold (shown right). While imperceptible as far as our senses are concerned, they would have governed the formation of the universe from the very beginning. Hence why scientists believe that peering back through time, using telescopes to spot light from the early universe (i.e. billions of years ago), they might be able to see how the existence of these additional dimensions could have influenced the evolution of the cosmos.

    Much like other candidates for a grand unifying theory – aka the Theory of Everything (TOE) – the belief that the universe is made up of ten dimensions (or more, depending on which model of string theory you use) is an attempt to reconcile the standard model of particle physics with the existence of gravity. In short, it is an attempt to explain how all known forces (gravity, electromagnetism, the electromagnetic weak and strong force) within our universe interact, and how other possible universes themselves might work.

    For additional information, here’s an article on Universe Today about parallel universes, and another on a parallel universe scientists thought they found that doesn’t actually exist. There are also some other great resources online. There is a great video that explains the ten dimensions in detail. You can also look at the PBS web site for the TV show Elegant universe. It has a great page on the ten dimensions.

    You can also listen to Astronomy Cast. You might find episode 137 The Large Scale Structure of the Universe pretty interesting.


    ----------------------

    Interesting. Basis of the show Sliders it seems
    Alt History etc.

    Rocket River
     
  2. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    24,403
    Likes Received:
    7,047
  3. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,029
    Likes Received:
    21,125
    Wtf? That is the entire purpose of science dummy. Revamp whenever more accurate information is discovered.

    That is a huge aspect of what makes science so humbling and beautiful. The same revamping happened with literally everything rationale that we now know. Evolution, Physics, Biology. etc...
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  4. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Messages:
    33,254
    Likes Received:
    30,754
    What is a science dummy? Is this a new teaching tool?
     
    RudyTBag and marks0223 like this.
  5. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    24,403
    Likes Received:
    7,047
    Think you haven't read criticism regarding string theory, it's getting louder each year. Maybe come up with some solid argument instead of calling me a dummy. And no, it's not just about "Revamp whenever more accurate information is discovered.". In the case of string theory it's more like "let's invent a whole bunch of new aspects so that our theory doesn't fall apart".
     
    liyihang likes this.
  6. mr_gootan

    mr_gootan Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    117
    The maths show that there are 11 dimensions
     
  7. HR Dept

    HR Dept Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    6,792
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    A thread like this could only exist in the 6th dimension.
     
  8. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,029
    Likes Received:
    21,125
    The most definitive attackers of string theory are Scientists, rightfully so. That is how it has always worked and always will work.

    It's not getting revamped, it is getting refined. Like literally every other Theory before it. Darwin, Newton, Copernicus and all the rest took a beating in their times for their ideas, which were ALL heavily revamped when new information became available. Literally the entire point of having an astute scientific community.
     
  9. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    24,403
    Likes Received:
    7,047
    True regarding other scientists and theories, but string theory is kind of unique if you follow its history and the constant (often heavy) rework. At some point you arrive at a point where it feels like many string theorists are remodelling their theories and sorting out every bad variable that doesn't support their work. But not in the “we didn't look at these things previously“ manner, more in the “new discoveries make no sense in string theory, so let's revamp everything in a way that string theory doesn't become obsolete“ fashion.
     
  10. Dei

    Dei Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,362
    Likes Received:
    335
    I am an actual scientist though not a physicist. I am a chemist but I do computer modeling of compounds and reactions. I deal with n-dimensional systems all the time. The math isn't that difficult and it scales. It's not that different dealing with systems of different sizes. At the end of the day, it's just an equation and a graph. We can visualize a slice of an n-dimensional objects on a 3D graph, with a choice of axes. I've seen more bizarro graphs than the one in the OP. Really, if you look at molecules, they're more complex. The difference is that the dimensions I'm talking about though aren't the same dimensions as the ones in string theory. I deal with stuff like, to use a very simple model, Molecular Mechanics, bond length, bond angle, torsional angle. I haven't dealt with string theory directly (it's on my to-do list) but, on the maths side, I don't think it's that complex. Quantum mechanics doesn't have fancy math, at all, and that's the part that deals with probability i.e. you get equations with superposition.
     
    #10 Dei, Jan 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
  11. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    13,020
    Likes Received:
    7,784
    in what dimension are the astros, rockets, and texans current champs?!
     
    Yaosthirdleg and J Sizzle like this.
  12. Jontro

    Jontro Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    34,305
    Likes Received:
    22,008
    i just googled string theory. did not understand. kthx.
     
    Yaosthirdleg and Exiled like this.
  13. Exiled

    Exiled Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    4,879
    Likes Received:
    1,182
    It's like debating the 8 minutes abs workout vs. 7 minutes.
    And
    Something like a virus attacking a cell which result in reproduction of a virus forming a viral protein, then:
    3 dimensions to each combined =6 , plus a new viral protein(3) , plus a time D. (1) =total of 10, in theory it's OK, in reality it's a fancy conversation called a theory.
     
    #13 Exiled, Jan 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
  14. Jontro

    Jontro Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    34,305
    Likes Received:
    22,008
    [​IMG]
     
  15. DarkHorse

    DarkHorse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 1999
    Messages:
    6,733
    Likes Received:
    1,247
    I think this makes a lot more sense:

     
  16. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    84,998
    Likes Received:
    83,163
    You guys can mess around with the other 9, but the only dimension that really matters is

     
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    34,620
    Likes Received:
    33,563
    Actually, not worth calling him a dummy, IMHO. Science definitely revamps, constantly, but the accurate information is based, fundamentally, on measurement and testing hypotheses.

    I'm a physicist, and I feel I can say confidently that string theory is fairly unprecedented in that it gets a lot of airplay and study and careers devoted to it without a single, solitary experimental test of note. It has shifted over time from the "theory of everything" to a "theory of anything," where it is so flexible that it could describe any reality and never be proven or disproven. A growing number of physicists (myself included, but I'm small potatoes and not a theorist anyway) are very skeptical of its value, absent some sort of proposed experimental test. There's nothing wrong with 10+ dimensions, at all, but there's something wrong when you have about 35 years of beautiful, evolving mathematical finger painting without an experiment to support or test it.

    I can't think of another part of physics that got to carry on, be on PBS shows, hundreds of books, videos, etc, without getting some validation from the world of experiment. So it's really not business as usual. Some very established physicists consider it a sort of an embarrassing (if lovely and clever) delusion. (Admittedly, I am giving one of the more negative views, and some people would give you much more positive views).

    Cheers.
     
    Yaosthirdleg and Yung-T like this.
  18. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,498
    Likes Received:
    56,095
    Here's Sagan explaining the 4th Dimension by first explaining what 3 dimensions would look like to Flat-landers (the shadow of a cube) and then how we could visualize the 4th dimensions "shadow' as well.

    I wonder if Sagan would attempt to explain the 10th Dimension to us cubists.



    props to @KingCheetah for first posting this vid in some thread this year, but I can't remember which one
     
    Xerobull likes this.
  19. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    24,403
    Likes Received:
    7,047
    Well said.
    PS: In what field do you work?
     
  20. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Messages:
    33,254
    Likes Received:
    30,754

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now