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Trying to understand China, the CBA and the situation with Yao Ming

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Sep 13, 2002.

  1. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Trying to understanding China the CBA and the situation with Yao Ming

    I think many of us including myself tend to make comments about the CBA with out having a good working knowledge of it. I am hoping that HP and some of our Chinese friends will chime in and help us (me in particular) understand the CBA and FIBA a lot better. So here are my questions.

    1. In the U.S. a young kid either gets into basketball out of his own desire or there is something outstanding (usually height or athletic ability) that causes a coach to become interested enough to try and persuade him to pick up the sport. In the end it is always the parents and the kid’s decision if the kid plays a sport. In China, what is the process that starts a child playing organized basketball? Is it strictly a decision between the child and the parents? Does the government identify and choose the children they want to play? If so does the child have a choice if he is identified and can other children play if they are not identified?

    2. In the U.S. a child grows up and if he chooses he can go to college and if he is good enough he can play ball for the college, but he is not obligated to do so unless he is attending school under a sports grant. If he decides he does not want to play then he can quit and continue going to school with no problem except loosing his grant money if he has any. In China if a child is identified as a basketball player does he have the choice to go to a college if he wants or is he obligated to play ball for a CBA team. If someone like Yao had finished school and wanted to attend college in the U.S. (like Eric Zhang) would he have had that choice? Could he have attended college here in the U.S. and played basketball for that college if he had wanted to?

    3. In the U.S. when a basketball player graduates high school or college or reaches a certain age he can apply for the NBA draft if he wishes to play for a NBA team. However, he is under no obligation to apply for the NBA draft if he does not want to play for the NBA and he can play for another league in any country in the world if he is good enough and can find one that wants him with no consideration to the NBA. The NBA would have no claim to him. In China does a player have to attend a CBA draft if he wants to play for a team or is he assigned? Does the CBA automatically own the basketball rights of each Chinese citizen. When the CBA assumes the basketball rights of a Chinese citizen do they own those rights for life or until they sign them over to another league through FIBA or do they have a contract (with an expiration date) with that citizen that would allow that citizen to own his own rights at the end of that contract. Is there any way for a player to by pass the CBA completely if they want to play for another league?

    4. In the U.S. our military is an all volunteer force. If a citizen wants to join then he voluntarily signs a contract with the government that makes him the property of that branch of the service for a certain number of years (usually 3 active and 3 inactive). At the end of his active service he is free to resume his life as he sees fit, his only obligation to the Military after that is to keep them updated of his permanent address in case there is an emergency and need to recall him. At the end of his inactive status he no longer has any obligation to the Military at all. If someone in the Military wishes to play ball professionally he can petition the government and that branch of the service to change his status to reserve or inactive as was the case with David Robinson or he can serve out his term and then begin his professional career as was the case with Roger Staubach. In China how are people like Wang Zhi Zhi picked for military service? Do they have a choice to serve or not to serve? Does the government select them or do they volunteer? Do they serve for limited terms at which time their obligation to the military ends or are they a obligated for life?

    I know if I had the answer too these questions it would allow me to comment more intelligently about the situation. So any Chinese citizen or anyone else with the answers to those questions please chime in but please no speculative answers. Thanks.
     
  2. yin

    yin Member

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    That's not easy to reply. I don't know much about Chinese sports system. But I think Yao and Wang are so excellent, they are "national treasure". So should be different from the general players. Therefore, their case is special case, can't be undersatnd from the general system. Anyway, I think they should represent country to compete in Olympic games or World championship game. Without their participating and training in national teams, could they be known by scouts? From any points, these opptunity is very important for their first celebrity.

    For Q1. Like U.S. , coahes in "Sports school" may pursude parents and childrens, but never force them by any form. Usually, people with strong athletic ability are not excellent in academic. So go to sports school is a best way. Sports school also have a lot of benefits to temp them. These people don't have strong atheletic ability couldn't go inside even they want to.

    For Q2. Like U.S., any children have their freedom to choose, but usually they just continue to pursuir in sports, reasons see 1. Just as I said, Wang and Yao are special, so when they display such high ability, they maybe restricted to go to U.S. to attend to college (in fact, so). That's just like the Panda in China, because so precious, they are not for sell even you pay any price, but maybe exchanged for another precious gifts. Now, we talk, Rocket want Yao to play center, China want him to get good training and represent their country in the future, Yao can also make good earning, That's all win.

    For Q3. Of course, players want to go to CBA, because, relatively, they can get good pay than any else wheres.

    For Q4. Wang's military service. it's not so serious like U.S. It's just an team owned by army, maybe pay high than the civilian team.

    At present, Yao was hindered to sign because China want to seek more assurance to restrict yao to play for china in any situation. They don't like Wang's case repeat again. If David Stern can say Wang has to play for China national team, otherwise he can't attend any NBA team, Yao will get sign instantly. But as contrary, he said in June, Wang can play for any team even without China's permission. In a word, Wang destroy Yao's dream and the dream of a lot of other players. I think Rocket can try to Push Stern if they can, but I don't think Rocket can.

    Anyway, I believe Yao will come to Houston in the middle of October. Ther're many pressurs there. Even signed now, Yao is not in Houston physically now. So just wait patiently.
     
  3. silkworm

    silkworm Member

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    I don't know a lot about the issues. But for question #4, I believe in Wang Zhizhi's parents signed him to the military when he was 14 years old. They did it because at that time, the army had the best basketball training system.

    If someone knows more about it please correct me.
     
  4. fwang

    fwang Member

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    Well written. But one point deserves a question: where is the fact that CBA is waiting for Stern to say something? Where is the fact or simply speculation???

    I have full confidence that Yao Ming will join Houston in Oct after the Asian Games. I simply do not understand where the agitation came from?

     
  5. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Yin,
    Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

    Then is it correct to say that Yao could have come to the U.S. to attend college if he had not chosen to play basketball but once he showed how valuable he is the government put extra restrictions on him in an attempt to protect something of value?

    Only the ones that show a talent for basketball at an early age are allowed to attend sports schools.

    Now I am still curious about the CBA's claim to the basketball rights of Chinese citizens. Do they own the basketball rights of all Chinese citizens or only the ones that attend sports schools and play in the CBA? Is the CBA a run by the government?

    Thanx again for answering my questions.
     
  6. redao

    redao Member

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    "Chinese goverment rob children from their parents to compete for the country."

    Some US friends seriously told me so. If I am not a Chinese, I will believe the story and get a gun to fight with those evil Chinese....................



    :D
     
  7. yin

    yin Member

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    From some reports, it seems that yao and Wang could get their grant from US college to come to US but didn't realize their dream.

    Sports school is from elmentary, middle, to high school. They are just like normal school, but put more time and effeort to the sports. At the early ages, they are not specialed, but with ages, they specialized in bastetball, soccer, etc.

    Not all talented children can go to school. They need some kind of exams (atheletic tests). But you see, when one is very young, it's not easy to identify. With a lot of children want to go to sports school, surely some unfair competition exists. Both the parents of Yao and Wang are players of former national teams. They don't have a lot of power like high officels, but enough to have their children to go to this kind school, in addtion their children have their atheletic genes. Actually there're a lot of big man don't have the chance, like Yao and Wang, to develop thir bball skills. That's why CBA think they shouldl get a lot of pay from Yao.

    Yeah, CBA is run by government.

    If Rocket realy want to push this thing fast, they can ask NBA to talk with CBA instead of just promise to China (from the reports, We can see CBA think a team promise is not enough). Please don't argue with me that Rocket don't have this power, I know it's beyond the power of team. NBA also have some regulation of the player and they don't want to change it because of Yao and Wang. So, now Yao become a "hostage". But China can't baigain with NBA and can't speak directly with NBA because the regulation of NBA. So now is just waiting. To deteriate more, Dallas team (Mav?) even didn't admit they have an agreement with CBA, and just curse CBA.

    I sympath Wang and Hate the stupid officals of CBA who deal with Wang, but that's another story. But Wang realy hinder Yao's case. Otherwise, Yao can come to US smoothly even in the draft time.
     
  8. yin

    yin Member

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    For Redao's citation:
    "Chinese goverment rob children from their parents to compete for the country."

    Some US friends seriously told me so. If I am not a Chinese, I will believe the story and get a gun to fight with those evil Chinese....................
    ------------------------
    Never. I don't know whose your Chinese friend is. But 99% Chinese in US can told you this is a inventation. Actually, the condition of human right in China is not so bad as most Americans image, the life in US is not so easy as most Chinese in China image. If you realy want to understand China, Take your holiday and spend $3000 to go to China to have a look.
     
  9. Yetti

    Yetti Contributing Member

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    redao:-Stop talking all that nonsence!!! Our Family was so happy when a child was selected for special school and training. The parents knew that the children would be so much better off, Health, Clothing,food, education and opportunity. If a parent was against it, it was OK. All this hate talk against China because you are different and have different ways must stop ! If there is ever going to be PEACE in the World, we must learn to accept the ways of others, some of which we might find are better than some of our own! The Chinese have their way of thinking and we have our way of thinking. It is just remarkable that a 226yr old culture would try to down people of 8 thousand years of culture!
     
  10. Panda

    Panda Member

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    Crash5179:

    First of all, thank you for this thread.

    I don't know all the answers to your question, just some of it.

    1. About government identifying sports talent, yes they do that all the time, but kids are not forced by the government to join sports schools. It's joined by free will. Wang Zhizhi was sent by his parents to sports schools at 14 as there's no other better basketball program. I lived in China as a kid, and I was in the elementary school to be identified by a government trainer and invited to play soccer, I refused because, well I was too lazy and not into playing sports at all. :D

    2.China's normal colleges and universities started a NCAA like league called CUBA for basketball athletes. That's another way to prepare for the CBA other than governmental sports schools, the sports schools in China cultivates sport talents but I don't think of, as far as I see, it as a scholarship, in fact, it's more like a loan in my eyes. One gets in, one receives all the free stuff, and one is supposed to pay back later. Just like educational loans in USA. For how long and in what ways I'm not sure, but there's no precedence in China that players are forced to play if they don't want to. Is there a formal contract for such payback? I never heard of Wang or Yao talk about it, and I read a lot on things about them. Maybe it's based on goodwill, I'm not sure. Again, this is just my impression, no guarentee on its being right or wrong.

    People that can get into the national team are always envied by their peers as the selection process is very strict, and if they can win a gold medal in the Olympics, they'll get handsome monetary reward, some of them, if they're good looking, become instant sports star and make a lot of money. It's estimated that FuMingXia, three peat female Olympic diving champion, made two millions USD off advertisement last year, I don't doubt it as I've seen enough of her ads for Sprites and other brand names.

    It doesn't make sense as well to make people do something they don't want to - from a practical standpoint - they simply can't do it well. It's just common sense. I heard of China's famous athletes out of the sports system talk about their personal plans of retirement , I wonder how can they personally plan their retirement if they are forced to play?

    3. About entering the CBA, I've not heard of a CBA draft, maybe there is but I don't know. From what Yao said about himself, he started in local level, representing a school first, then a city, then gradually to higher and higher levels and finally made it into the CBA and NT. There is a strict selection process in every field of sports. Only those who excels in every level can make it to the top.

    I don't know if CBA owns the right of every Chinese that plays basketball, but that's very strange to say as this theory has never been tested. CBA and sports bureau never claimed such rights though.

    CBA is regulated by the government sports bereau, but not owned by the government. Many CBA clubs are owned privately or sponsored by private corporations. Hong Kong and Taipei, yes, Taipei has recently joined CBA. As to Wang's Bayi Rockets, it's an army's club as you know.

    4. Lastly, China doesn't force people to join the army, we don't need to. Taiwan and Korea are the places that force people to join the army. Their social infrastructure lacks incentives for people to join the army. Not so in China, millions of young man, many from the rural areas, are willing to join the army for free room and board and allowances. Again, forced soldiers don't fight well.

    From what I heard of Wang's friends, Wang was a very patriotic and simple minded young man before joining the NBA. He liked army very much and even made an army song as his mobile phones sound effect. Maybe money changed him, I don't know.
     
  11. Shrimpie

    Shrimpie Member

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    Is it me or some of you guys can't read?


    Shrimpie
     
  12. michecon

    michecon Contributing Member

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    Ok, let me try to answer to the best of my knowledge. However, as I said, many things are changing very fast as China commercialize many state run enterprise and entities, sports is no different. So, my view probably isn’t most up to date. Also, I didn’t personally go to sports school so I might be wrong on other things also. Others can correct me.

    In China, it’s usually the coaches of junior sports school who identify the talent. It’s the kids’ decision as well as their parents’ decision to join or not join the sport school. Since sports school gives free education and an opportunity for being a great athlete later (who bodes for fame and $), it’ s quite attractive to the kids who are not that good in academics, especially poor kids. However, I know of persons who’s good athletes and good students refuse the opportunity since they think education at sports school are not as good, and they want to concentrate on academics.

    The army has own sports system also. Athletes who are signed up by the army are not subject to the rules of local or provincial sports bureau. Wang’ s parents signed him up for army at the age of 14. At the time, the benefit in the army system was very good compared to the others, so it’s very attractive. Wang stayed there quite happily and advance his ranking to Lt. Colonel.

    This is changing with the commercialization of the sports, most evidently in Soccer. Now there are many private soccer schools in China. They are very expensive. So sadly mostly rich kids can get into that, unless you are very talented. I suspect the same thing is going on in basketball too.

    The old system is still working in a lot of sports. The rationale for the system was that there were not enough resources for every kid to have a try on sports (You’ll know if you’ve been to HSs in China, many don’t even have a gym). So they put limited resources on the most promising kids. Like I said before, for every 7 footer “superstar” Wang zhizhi, there might be another 7 footer Wang nobody street vendor in Beijing because he was not granted the chance to develop his athletic ability.




    The most typical path for athletes are from local sports school to provincial sports school, and if they are good enough ultimately to NT. However, they are allowed to go to college if they are good enough in academics. Most of them don’t. College entrance was (and still is) very competitive.

    Many universities have their own sports program. They lower their entrance score criteria and sometime hand out scholarships to attract athletes. But in most cases, best athletes are still in sports school. I believe there is also sports university, for those who have passable academics but maybe not top of the line athletes. They can at least become coach or referee or sports agent after their competition career.

    Many well known athlete went to college after they retire from NT, e.g. the diving diva Fu MingXia is now a student in the prestige Tsinghua University. The government has special deal for them because of their contributions to the NT.

    Almost every Bball player wants to play for CBA in stead of going college, if they can, because that’s where money is. Once they signed for CBA, there’s nothing unlike NBA. They don’t have the right whether to play or where to play any more until released or traded.

    Yao Ming’s case is special. I’m not sure he can qualify for the American University or not. But he certainly has a chance to go were he not signed by the Sharks. He is a special case also because both his parents were in the NT, so he was well known as a potential talent when little. The government gave his family special money for his nutrition and other needs. Not many, but much needed money.




    Most of the CBA teams have their players come from their local sports school. Since CBA teams are often related in some way with the local government, they are very protective of their local talent. However, CBA is trying to install a draft and trade system much like the NBA.

    Players signed with CBA teams are obliged to honor his contract. Players on NT can retire. If a player on NT wants to play in another country before retirement, he/she most likely needs approval from the sports bureau if he/she is someone coming from the old sports school system. Most athletes don’t choose to retire prematurely, because their career after competition mostly hinge on the sports bureau. Many of the former greats take on administrative jobs in the sport system after they retire with honor.


    China has a similar volunteer system. Most soldiers serve 3-5 years. Officers serve longer. But if your ranking doesn’t advance enough, you need to retire from army ultimately. Wang Zhizhi advances himself to Lt Colone, and still is on servicel. If he chooses to retire from army or disassociate with army himself, he can do whatever as a private citizen. There is really no mystery here.
     
    #12 michecon, Sep 14, 2002
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2002
  13. jeremyang2002

    jeremyang2002 Contributing Member

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    some points:
    1.Chinese culture is different with US. Sometimes American thinks it's been forced, but Chinese even dont have any idea of force.'Cause they have been educated like this.
    2.Kids are not forced to join any team at frist. But if they show some talent(like YaoMing),they have no choice to be a normal student in school. They will have to take more than 20 hours practicing.
    3.about civil rights of Chinese,no one can explain it clearly.Maybe it is in the corner of some Law. But no textbook/teacher will tell students anything about civil rights. Who knows?Who cares? We totally ignore it.
    4.about 2 weeks ago,China government banned logging into google.com cause it can be used for searching something they dont want you know. for example:FaLunGong
     
  14. SuperKev

    SuperKev Contributing Member

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    Panda,

    Please don't take this the wrong way. But the picture you have painted sounds like 100% free will in China. That doesn't seem like communism at all.

    One observation though.

    Since everyone is waiting for Yao Ming to sign a contract, why should he 'sign' at all since it seems he is not at liberty to do so.

    'Signing' a contract implies the individual chooses to sign it or not. I don't know but this does not seem to be the case. What happened to the 100% 'free will' pretty picture for in Yao's case?
     
  15. Panda

    Panda Member

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    China doesn't seem like communism at all? That's my impression too!

    Of course it's not 100% free will in China, there's can do and no can do in China. Let's just say this, don't ask the government to do drastic political changes on voting rights and freedom of speech, don't defy them on key national interest such as Taiwan Independance and crackdown on Falun Gong. Those are sensitive areas, avoid them and you'll be fine. There is no secret polices monitoring your back if you don't mess with their taboo. You have religious freedom, limited to the recognized popular religions such as Buddhism, Christianity and Islam etc.. You can't believe in classified cults such as Falun Gong. You can sue governmental agency now if you don't agree with their doings, people did it and they won before. You can appeal to higher courts and get them to overrule sentences you don't like by the local courts. You can pursue private fortune as much as you want to. Many of these things are unheard of before.

    One has certain room for their private life in China. People has certain chemistry with the government. They mutually know what is OK and what is not and they try to coexist in that framework. For the government, the above mentioned taboos. For the people, can I say, keep doing capitalization, opening and developing the economy. The government successfully deprived certain rights of people without making them feel like slaves through their image building. That's a reason why more and more Japanese, Americans, Taiwanese etc. are settling in China now, sending their kids into the "brainwashing" educatinal system of China. They simply don't feel being oppressed and in constant fear living in China. Other reasons for them, are opportunities and rising living standard in China. Many overseas Chinese are coming back to China to pursue their financial dreams. One will be out of their mind to do so if basic civil rights for daily life are not guarenteed in China. As I said, China is getting more and more opened as its economy progresses. CBA is a product of such commercialization in many sectors of China.

    The above is a snapshot of China to me after living 4 months in Beijing this year.

    As for Yao's case, he's just waiting for the officials to try fix the "export mechanism", in the allowed time frame of the agreement. Part of such mechanism was built on goodwill, now obviously goodwill didn't work. I don't think the officials will hold Yao up and breach the agreement, so that's no worry to me.

    Hope this can answer your questions.

    1. Chinese has weaker reaction of being forced to do things, but it doesn't mean they don't realize it, and even if they realize it, they don't always express it. I'm a Chinese, and believe me, I knew when if I was forced or not when I lived in China. You seem to have a low evaluation of your countrymen, well, that's OK, since there's so many of them and you can't know all of them.

    2. What's your point? Are you suggesting that government forced Yao Ming to play basketball? or it's the parents that force kids to play? Those are two different things. Since you say they don't have choice, what punishment is there for their refusal to participate? Pls clarify.

    It's important to point that oppressiveness can be only attributed to the system when it's formalized in that system. For example, censorship is formalized and decreed, but physical punishment by teachers in schools is never acknowledged in the educational system. In USA, problem of police brutality exists but it's not part of the system. It's important to distinguish between individual cases and the system..

    3. Hm... isn't voting for class leader gives students an idea about the voting rights, which is a form of civil rights? I voted for my class leader in elementary school in China. Guess you didn't.

    Although China isn't democratic, to say that the idea of civil rights is totally ignored is going too far. There's governmental propaganda in educational system that's for sure, but that doesn't eliminate teachers talking about civil rights. The "communists" in China are eager to pretend they care about civil rights, they always portray themselves as democratic through their rigged "people's representatives" system. They even erected an outside puppet party called "The democratic national construction party of China". They are fake, but they show that democracy is at least a slogan in the government propaganda. "People are the masters of this country." is popular state rhetorics. That's of course only talking. The government always pretends they care about civil rights. Along with China's opening, the awareness of civil rights is rapidly increasing.

    Since China is rapidly changing over the last twenty years, it's important to note the date of personal expericnce. My education in China was in the late 80's, what about yours?

    I'm interested in knowing that if sex education in educational program shows relative open mindedness of a government, since Beijing is integrating sex education into middle schools educational program now.

    4. That's irrelavant and China is known for that long long time ago. Again, we are talking about sports here. Not politics. I guess people here know about China's stance on freedom of speech so thank you but it's not helping.
     
  16. Lil

    Lil Contributing Member

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    nope. you still haven't answered the question.
    if there is free will, why are there all these non-financial contract conditions being linked to Yao Ming? Why would they be necessary? To put a person under a contract bondage implicitly limits the exercise of his post-contract free will. To force him to enter into the contract (for example by withholding his release) limits the exercise of his pre-contract free will. exactly how is Yao's free will NOT constrained...

    export mechanisms are for goods, not people. goods have no free will. people do. or do you consider Yao Ming a form of exotic cattle?

    LOL. your first 3 points all are purely personal or political arguments, and then you call the guy's post "irrelevant" for being political. try this exercise. if you cannot find the term basketball, rockets, or yao ming in your paragraph, don't write it. you risk, in your own words, rendering your own post "irrelevant".
     
  17. Panda

    Panda Member

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    Lil:
    I've never said there is complete free will in China. There is but it is limited.

    If you think NBA player have free will in when, who and where they can play as a non free agent, then I'm truly speechless. Yao Ming is a player under contract with CBA right NOW, therefore he can't choose where, when and for whom he can play. He's like Tim Hardaway, gone or stay at the complete mercy of Mark Cuban. Which part don't you still understand?

    Export mechanism are for people too. Americans call Detlef Shrimpf a great Germany export. :D Try again.

    As for the civil rights talk, they are related to sports system/Yao/Wang situation and therefore relevant, but cencorship is not akin to Wang and Yao, if you failed to realize it.

    The more you try to paint me black, in this or the other thread, the more ignorance you show in terms of human rights, freedom, civil rights, contract law, CBA and China affairs in general, if you still don't realize that.
     
  18. montgo

    montgo Contributing Member

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    Panda:

    I cannot vouge personally as to your national origin, but man, great responses. Great glimpse behind the political system and interworkings from a citizen standpoint. I have heard similar responses from other Chinese citizens that I have known and this sounds very credible to me.

    You will have to excuse some our our "patriots". Sometimes, we have an intense urge to go beyond questioning a framework other than "democracy" in its purest form. It is hard for citizens in democractic frameworks to understand other societies and sometimes it is hard to comprehend that people can live good lives in other non-democratic worlds. We sometimes tend to think that the past is still the present and that frameworks other than the "American Dream" do not work!

    I happen to know of an American citizen who lives down south in China by the sea and has a motorcycle dealership and says the same thing you did as far as "taboos" to avoid with the government. He says it is really basic and there are no fears at all. He makes a great living and is perfectly accepted in the government and social infrastucture and he is not of Chinese descent and not even close. So, I know from first hand knowledge that China has made huge strides in the past 30 years and continues to be a major economic force.

    As to how this relates to B-Ball....not sure exactly, but thought I could validate some thoughts here.
     
  19. Lil

    Lil Contributing Member

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    so long as we agree on the absence of free will, i've got no qualms with you.

    NBA players have free will in that they can choose to give up their contracts at anytime, simply by forfeiting their salary. Furthermore, they have the right to join or leave the league, and to negotiate the first contract to their own advantage. When there are agents involved, they work on behalf of the player. (look at Sabonis, look at Bison Dele).

    In this case. Yao Ming cannot simply choose to forfeit his contract with Shanghai. Furthermore, he cannot negotiate his own contract to his own advantage. The negotiators are working for the interests of the Shanghai team and Chinese league.

    don't debate me on this if you don't know what you're talking about.


    i've never issued a personal attack against you. but if you really want my opinion about your methods, then it is this:
    i'm disgusted with the way you handle yourself on this BBS. you readily mix personal attacks with insensitive political ranting. i don't care to paint you black. i just care for what is right and just. i readily concede my faults, i readily praise good posts even when they differ from my beliefs. you are like a brick wall. if anything is remotely different from your beliefs, you aggressively cast them aside and deride as "ignorant misinformation" or "malicious politically-motivated lies", almost like a caged and cornered animal. there is no conversation or discussion here. because it takes two pairs of listening ears to have one. there is only pride, fear and hatred.

    there is an old chinese saying which says "when the scholar meets the soldier, reason cannot be expressed". please learn to be more the scholar, more the listener... and you'll find interactions on this BBS a whole lot more pleasant.

    cheers!
     
  20. Lil

    Lil Contributing Member

    Joined:
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    i agree with this assessment. china has made great strides in the past 30 years.

    people do enjoy unprecedented amounts of freedom and material prosperity there.

    and thank you panda and montgo for pointing that out.

    but back to the issue at hand. understanding how china and the cba works is no reason to say that things are perfect the way they are. is that what we should be saying to them? "yes, do feel free to ask us to keep yao ming on a tight leash for ya!" "yes, of course we feel the same way you do about how we treat our players and citizens!"... "yes, of course, we'll comply with your demands!" "yes, anything else we can do for ya?"

    frankly i can't fathom how rockets fans can keep from feeling incensed that this crap HAS to happen. or how anyone can tell us that this is acceptable.

    we never tolerated stuff like this why we drafted players out of africa, out of the caribbean, out of europe, out of russia, out of latin america, out of australia. but why on earth must china be given the privilege to shaft the rockets? someone enlighten me.
     
    #20 Lil, Sep 14, 2002
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2002

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