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Truth about Harden off-ball

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by snowconeman22, May 25, 2019.

  1. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    The truth about James' off ball play is that he's a perfectly willing off-ball shooter or slasher , screen settler , and swing passer.

    The idea that James doesn't want to play off ball , and that he's disinterested is wrong .

    You want to know why he sometimes stands near halfcourt when he's off ball ? It's because that's exactly what he's been told to do .

    Earlier in the season when asked about it CP3 said something to the effect of "I love the 4v4 we run" joking that when harden plays that far away , his man is sucked away as well . This makes is a 4 on 4 and theoretically gives the offense even more spacing and should make it easier to get a good shot .

    You wanna know how I know he's willing and good off-ball player ?

    1) history of good off ball play in OKC (yes he handled the ball there too sometimes , still he WAS off ball way more frequently and contributed nicely)

    2) history of good off ball play in HOU. Although we don't use him off-ball frequently he is definitely a decent spot up shooter and has had MANY backcuts that lead to a dunk . One of mchales favorite things to do to get harden going was to get him the ball off a dribble handoff so he had some momentum and a pick going to the basket .

    3) history of improvement . James has gotten better at literally everything over the years . However , in particular his defensive growth has been outstanding . I make this point to say this . How likely is it that Harden WANTS to play great defense , but is vehemently against playing off-Ball more ?

    The idea that James wants only to play on ball , and throws a mini tantrum by playing a listless and shitty off-ball game is ludicrous .

    If the coach wanted James in the corner or anywhere on the 3 point line waiting for passes and then shooting , driving , or swinging .... he'd be doing it . And he'd be doing it really really well . If the coach wanted James running around setting screens , he'd be doing it .

    IMO mda has tried to maximize his efficiency through spamming James as a PnR ball handler and once the defense switches and ISO scorer . He then has tried to maximize CP3s efficiency by having harden create as much space as possible . But in doing so , he's atrophied Harden's versatility AND by taking James completely out of the play ... he is put in a bad position if he does have to respond quickly. From hardens own side , I think he loses mental engagement .... and that's not good .

    I think harden is fully capable and willing of playing a more active off-ball style . The question is , is that what he will be told to do ?
     
  2. IvanLCPM

    IvanLCPM Member

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    I don't really agree. I feel like he takes possessions off, but because he would get tired otherwise, not because he has a beef with CP3. I always felt he should be doing more off-ball stuff, but we gotta understand that he carries a big load offensively and has been frequently giving more effort on defense. He can't do it all. That's the problem with not having 5 all-stars, we can't have our players take turns on offense and still do the little things that would put us over the hump.
     
  3. Mr. Space City

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  4. rockets13champs

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    Listen, all we need to start winning is to stop flopping and complaining about calls and just mentally focus in games. We do that and the whole game changes. Instead of trying to cheat the game chasing fouls we need to work on running plays and strategize on defense.
    Look at Kawhi he never complains no matter the call or contact. That’s what cp3 and harden need. They need to not let the refs get in their head, we rockets fans literally the day of every game look at what refs are reffing because we always know that specific refs get into cp3 and hardens Head. We need to stop complaining next year and play to win games. We gotta change habits. Once we do we’re going to win the chip
     
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  5. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    Imagine Thunder fans having to watch that video.
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Wow he actually ran
     
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  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Excuses excuses.

    DD
     
  8. Tfor3

    Tfor3 Member

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    Wow. He actually had real teammates
     
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  9. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast
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    WTF do OKC highlights from back then have to do with anything?

    I get the taking plays off thing, but it would take about zero more energy for him to stand at the 3pt line as a spot up threat or at least a decoy as it would for him to stand at half court. And don't give me the 4x4 bs...his defender isn't at half court with him from most of what I've seen, he's standing at the top of the 3pt line and is still engaged.
     
  10. rocks123

    rocks123 Member

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    the thing with harden even though he is already our best player by a mile hes also our only player that has actual window for improvement. maybe thats why its his game we are nitpicking because he still can improve. i guess we already gave up on cp3. lol. and with capela most here are resigned that he would just sucks against GSW. which is sad honestly.
     
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  11. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    No one on this team plays off ball. Chris Paul is always standing with his hands on his knees in the corner when Harden runs the play.

    I think we only run some off ball shots for Eric Gordon
     
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  12. Rockets1897

    Rockets1897 Member

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    Harden has immense gravity on the defence. It really is 4 vs 4. The problem is CP3 is physically declining and he can’t get to his spots anymore and even get his 3 point shot off over guys. It was different last year. He declined so badly the only thing that kept us in this season is Hardens crazy improvement. Otherwise we’d be an 8th seed. After that horrific offseason...
     
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  13. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    I would agree, cause i have seen Harden's defender where you say they are, but he's doing it so much i think it HAS to be planned.

    I mean if Mike doesn't want him out there , then why the hell is he standing around out there so much ?

    I think the defender scooting back is a defensive adjustment that MDA didnt figure out how to counter yet
     
  14. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Luxury Tax Only Fan
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    I find it extremely surprising people are making excuses for hardens poor off ball effort. It’s obvious to everyone.

    I’m a huge fan, but ima bigger team fan. Harden playing better off the call makes the team more dangerous
     
  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Meanwhile no one complains more than golden State.

    Rocket River
     
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  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    Harden and Derek Fisher though. That is diverse.
     
  17. Game7

    Game7 Member
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    He does still draw a defender when he is at halfcourt without the ball. It does create a 4 on 4. No defense in the league is gonna leave James open (pretty much ever) if they can control it, so they don’t. The fact that opposing team’s best defender is usually on James actually takes an essential part of their defense out of the play so that could be seen as an advantage to the Rockets depending on matchups/situations. I also think he could be more active or more effective “in position.” They can all happen in a single game in different scenarios and all that matters is we win. Go Rockets!
     
  18. rockets13champs

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    To be honest after game 1 rox/dubs series I saw 0 complaining. Draymond even said his game improved after he stopped whining in game 1.
     
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  19. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

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    This...

    I am not the biggest Harden fan, but I can't judge his off the ball movement; because this is not how the offense is run..

    T_Man
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Westbrook who everyone on this board says sucks? The rest of OKC who everyone says sucks? Durant who makes no difference on golden state?

    Harden has plenty of help here imo


    Also harden ran here from 2013-15. Rockets ranked high in pace.
     
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