Tony Allen says James Harden is the only scorer he hasn't figured out

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to detract from how great and MVPlicious James Harden is, but I think Tony Allen in his prime would have been able to figure out Harden. Not saying he would have been able to stop him or shut him down, but he would have done at least as good of a job as someone like Klay Thompson does on him -- probably better.

 

Coming from Tony Allen that is a big compliment.

 

No, I understand that -- but, when your physical tools decline, your ability to create a plan gets decreased as well. So, the younger Tony Allen that was more in his physical prime, would have had the tools needed to formulate a plan -- that is what I am saying.

Edit: sort of how Marius could not figure out Sulla, or how Pompeii could not figure out Caesar. They got older, their talents diminished. In their younger days though...

 

?? This is the first time I've read anyone say that as an NBA player gets older his mental ability to play the game declines. Smart players find ways to stay relevant and contribute in the league even after their physical abilities goes away. That goes for both offense (Jordan, Kobe, etc.) and defense (Battier, Chandler, etc.)

 

I agree with him that his ball handling isn't that impressive, but it still somehow gets the job done. Harden is deceptively quick. His jab steps help a lot too.

 

That's not what I said. As an individual defender your plan to stop someone is based on the tools at your disposal, namely your body. When those tools can't do certain things they used to, your options when formulating a defense decreases. Allen had a larger toolbox back when he was devising how to slow down Kobe.

Think of Dream. Dream had a plan for Shaq in 95. 8 years later, as his body declined, that plan was not on the table anymore.

 

The ability do defend Harden largely comes from how good he happens to be shooting that night. People talk a lot about how he is all about driving to the basket, but they forget that Harden is still ultimately a shooter at heart. Give him daylight and he will shoot. If his shot is not falling, he starts driving where usually one of two things will happen; he makes it or he gets fouled. Sometimes he will miss the layup and not get the foul, but it's a lot more rare. If he gets fouled, he keeps doing that to score instead. If the refs decided to deep throat their whistles, well there is that step back. Basically, Harden is the antithesis of T-Mac, who falls back on his jumper when he gets fouled.

 

So it's not that he can't figure him out, but that his body can't keep up anymore? That's somewhat disregarding Tony Allen's comments altogether. Great team defense is really the only way to stop Harden. Or just a bad shooting night from pretty much all other available distribution targets.

 

I agree with the team defense being the only way stop Harden. I don't mean to disregard Allen's comments -- rather I am just acknowledging those comments as data and then reanalyzing his overall opinion. I mean, does anyone really think Allen is the defender he was 5 years ago?

Your body declines and your ability to make plans for one on one defense diminishes. You put Allen's brain in the body he had 5 years ago, I think he would be able to guard Harden just as well as he used to guard the elite scorers of that time in the NBA.

 

You keep referring to the physical aspect of defending Harden while what Allen said deals with more of the mental aspect. Read that quote again:

It's not about Allen not being able to body Harden up--it's about Harden's uncanny ability to create contact and/or draw a foul. Your theory that if Allen was younger and had the body to do so goes out the window because Harden feasts on overly-physical defenders by having them commit stupid fouls.

It's not about putting a body on Harden--it's about defending him while he drives and penetrates at you, throwing pretty much his whole body baiting you into contact. If you over play when he goes into attack mode he pulls the ball back for a step back jumper. THAT's why Harden is tough to defend.

 

I understand that -- but I also understand that defenders who have individual success on him (like Thompson) have the ability to play him physically while at the same time maintaining the coordination and footwork to not get out of position. I just think Allen could have accomplished this when he was younger.

 

Why is it that you care so much about how one particular poster views a comment by a basketball player?

 

Eh, you may be right. Just throwing my two cents in I guess. Honestly I am a big fan of Allen's defense back in the day. I'm a sucker for good defense.

 

Of course it makes a difference. Allen is talking about having a method. That doesn’t mean the method means shutting the other guy down. For example, his method against Durant in ball denial basically implies that if he fails and KD gets the ball, he’s screwed. I’d imagine a younger version would have more success simply by having more physical tools to defend KD in the post.

I don’t think his statement means Harden is easier or tougher to defend than some other top guys. Just that Harden's success comes a lot from his array of deceptive moves. But that deceptiveness is already built into Harden’s results. Durant can score 30 even if you know how he’s going to score. While Harden has to partially rely on you not knowing what’s his next move will be to achieve his success. You can say that in a way, that limits Harden’s ceiling because if Durant can be as crafty as Harden, he may literally be unstoppable.

 

Your options decline until you retire. It can be gradual or abrupt. That's not really a controversial statement.

 

Okay okay, before I bow out of this conversation (which my last post indicated I was going to do) I just wanted to draw one example/analogy.

Did you ever see that video of Yao and Dream discussing how to overcome a fronting defense (the bane of Yao's existence)-- it was from about 2 years ago, they were in a living room or something.

Dream was talking about his strategy for beating the fronting defense, and acting like it was fool proof. And Yao just kept shaking his head, saying he was not physically quick enough to employ that strategy. Dream kept repeating it like it was the simplest thing in the world, Yao kept smiling and shaking his head.

He mentally understood the strategy, but he could never use it because he never had the physical quickness and explosiveness of Dream.

You see, strategy is not all about the mental, it is about the mental being able to craft a strategy based on what you bring to the table physically. And if that diminishes, your strategic capabilities also do.

Okay, anyway, that's my two cents -- good night everyone. Nice talk.

 

So wait? Harden does something else other than flopping to the line?

Tony Allen makes it seem like he has actual moves, we all know All Harden does is flop around the court like some fish out of water.