TNT crew reveals votes for top 5 NBA players

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by RocketsFan0, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. RocketsFan0

    RocketsFan0 Member

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    ... and you guessed it. No recognition for harden except for one..

    http://cavsnation.com/nba-tnt-crew-reveal-votes-top-5-players-nba/

    Surprisingly, only Barkley showed some love for harden. Neither shaq nor Kenny chose harden as their top five players. Y'all think harden's gonna get snubbed this year? Heck, even Westbrook who is having a triple double season is chosen last or near last.
     
  2. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    People need to realize how close the top is right now, the top 5 are highly debatable and arguments can be made for every one of these guys.

    It's not like Curry, Westbrook, Kawhi, KD, Bron are worse than Harden, all are either on top teams or doing something historic (Westbrook).

    Really feel like people should stop making this about the media.
     
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  3. oogie boogie

    oogie boogie Member

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    Well, if I'm being a very rational basketball fan and try to judge players on a very equal footing... then I'm honestly not sure if Harden is a top 5 player in the league today. Don't get me wrong, I do believe he is very talented. One of the most talented players I've ever watched. The league today is just so tremendous in terms of star power though.

    Consider a player like Isaiah Thomas. Obviously, at one end of the spectrum he's completely awful, but on the other end? He's absolutely one of the best scorers this season that we've seen in a long time. He has his team right in the hunt for the 2nd seed in the west, and has been the back bone for a lot of the Celtics' close wins. Still, I don't think anyone would have him in their top 20 players realistically because if you think about it: the Celtics were already a playoff team before Thomas went off on this explosion. Brad Stevens is already a very talented and young coach. Al Horford is a talented big as well. Isaiah is viewed as a super elite player, but because he's in the position to succeed but in reality there are many players who are just better than him.

    Now consider a player like Nikola Jokic. This is a player who has been very fun to watch play. A 2nd year guy who is putting up something like 20-10-5. And he probably can not jump higher than a foot off the ground, but he has made a huge impact on the Nuggets since they've given him the keys to the car. Probably not even in someone's top 30. Then consider Marc Gasol who essentially is also a 20-10-5 guy except he gives you 2 blocks a game and is a veteran and knows the game much better than Jokic. Is he top 15? It's remarkable how good these two guys are, and how much we just drool over their talent. They're so fun to watch and definitely impact their teams in a very positive way. Much how you'd expect an all-star to do. These are all-star caliber players. Aren't there only 22 all-stars a year though? And I believe Marc barely got in.

    Now we're talking about top-5 player in the league.

    Well, we can scratch off Kevin Durant and Lebron James immediately. Two players who have proven over the years that they're the two best in the league. It's not a sign of disrespect to say those two guys are better than Harden.

    Afterwards, you kind of have to put in Stephen Curry over James Harden. No matter what anyone says Curry had arguably the best offensive season of any guard player of all time. Yes, Harden is currently putting up 29/11/8 which.. damn. Just typing that. Holy ****. It's incredible to just say so casually. But even then, we can't dismiss how the talent of Stephen Curry and James Harden has yet to prove he's a better player than Stephen Curry even if Curry has had a better roster around him for the past 3 seasons.

    Then you have guys like Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, and Chris Paul. I can write novels on why these guys are all so talented, and could be taken before james Harden.

    But let's talk about Chris Paul.

    You know people look at his numbers and think there's no way. He's only averaging 19 and 9? That's what gets lost in the sauce. Chris Paul is more than just 19 points and 9 assists. No one other than Lebron James controls the game better than Chris Paul. You just don't understand how good his numbers really are. Look at this. Magic Johnson as a 27 year old averaged 31 points and 16 assists per 100 possessions. Ok, I know you're looking at me crazy right now because I said per 100, but these things matter. He actually averaged about 24 points and 12 assists in 36 minutes which is still legendary, but follow me here. Chris Paul as a 31 year old this season per 100 possessions is averaging 28 points and nearly 16 assists. You know, from just a offensive standpoint that's ****ing incredible. Obviously, CP isn't no Earvin on the court, but ****. To dismiss present greatness like that? Just cause? C'mon you have to be pressed to say CP3 isn't worthy of being a top 5 player. You know, at the very least top 10.

    I remember one of those dummies had Chris Paul at 21. Unforgivable. They don't really know how to analyze ball like that. They get their feelings in the mix and confuse actual impact with the end result. A guy like Kemba Walker could be having a huge impact for how good the Hornets are, but guess what? The end result will be unfavorable and Kemba won't be looked at as a huge impact player.

    So, if someone doesn't think Harden is a top 5 player, cool. I'm not bothered. I can understand the argument for Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard and Russell Westbrook over him. I ain't mad, and I don't take it as a sign of disrespect. James Harden isn't perfect. He deserves to be considered a top-5 player, and anyone who vehemently says no is just a hater, but if someone says, "Well, I like Kawhi better. He's done really well this season as a scorer, and he is still an elite defensive player while Harden has just proved to be an elite scorer and play maker. I don't believe Kawhi needs to be an incredible play maker to impact the game even more. He already does in my opinion." then cool! If someone says, "No, I'm not taking Harden over Anthony Davis or any of the other guys as a top 5 player. He's significantly worse and is a product of blah blah blah" then don't even engage in conversation. Those guys have their minds made up. They're weirdos.

    The league is just so top heavy and it's really hard to pick those guys from 3-10.
     
  4. sealclubber1016

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    LeBron is still the best player in the NBA, after him Kawhi,Westbrook,Curry, Durant and Harden all have claims to being number 2.

    Harden is clearly the MVP IMO, but that doesn't mean best player. If it did, Lebron would be hoisting his 10th straight.
     
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member

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    media conspiracy
     
  6. Houstunna

    Houstunna Contributing Member

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    LeBron and KD are 1 and 2, after that Leonard is 3rd, IMO. Those guys basically have no flaws.

    4 and beyond is debatable as those players either have glaring flaws or their teams lack success.

    The MVP race is a close one, and neither player (Westbrook/Beard) is clearly ahead of the other.
     
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  7. underrated015

    underrated015 Member

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    Who cares. Harden has us at 40-18. Least of my worries.
     
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  8. bloodwings19

    bloodwings19 Member

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    Kenny Smith does not love Houston. Westbrook and Harden is interchangeable, but for him not to pick him shows he really doesn't adore the Houston Rockets. He may not even show up for the 50th Rockets. Exiled Kenny
     
  9. brewer's goat

    brewer's goat Member

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    Harden has too many red flags to be considered a legit top 5 player. Defense, turnovers, etc. Even offensively - which is supposed to be his strong suit - many people think Harden relies on cheap foul calls too often. Overall, too many holes in his already aesthetically unappealing game. There is only one way to change people's minds and that is to lead the Rockets to the championship.
     
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  10. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Yeah, maybe no flaws in what they do, but what about what they don't do. KD and Kawhi are no where close to being the playmaker that PGs can be. So, you gotta look at what they do and don't do. Are their strengths as wing players who can create for themselves and somewhat for others (at least good enough for the class of player -- SF), better than the strengths of PGs and SGs who are floor generals.

    And also, MVP shouldn't be a measure of who has the fewest weaknesses anyhow, or Shaq should never have won.
     
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  11. brewer's goat

    brewer's goat Member

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    Before this season started, I swear I thought Harden was definitely better than Kawhi. I'm not so sure about that anymore, and that change of mind occurred while Harden is having the best season of his career. That's how good Kawhi has been, and if you think about it the guy is almost averaging 50-40-90 while scoring 26 points per game. That's very similar to Dirk's numbers during his MVP season, except Kawhi is one of the best defenders in the game while Dirk was a horrible defender. On advanced metrics, Kawhi is ahead of Harden in PER, WS/48, and RPM, whereas Harden is ahead in WS, BPM, and VORP. I don't know about you, but I kinda prefer the former ones over the latter.

    The more I think about it, Kawhi is slowly evolving into the best player in the world straight up, rather than a top 5 candidate.
     
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  12. Houstunna

    Houstunna Contributing Member

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    Good point. I was thinking more of being 2-way players. Is their limited playmaking (compared to guards) offset by their defensive advantage? Also, how much is their playmaking offset by turnovers?

    They all have ability to carry a team with their offense. A guy like Klay hasn't proven he can as a #1 option.

    Shaq can't shoot or guard P&R. While those are huge flaws, he wasn't close to being an offensive liability overall, or defensive.
     
    #12 Houstunna, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  13. Rockets4Life13

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    Harden is 3rd imo. Lebron>Durant>Harden. I dont get that leonard hype. Yea he is pretty good offensively but nowhere near Hardens level. Leonard is heavily benefiting from one of the best coaches ever in pop. Also, he can't really create for other players like Harden,Lebron can. Nowhere near hardens passing. Obviously better defensively. I'd take harden over leonard every day. I've allready said why in another thread here
     
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  14. HoustonTexas

    HoustonTexas Member

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    Also Just FYI for everyone. They made the list during the first month of this season. So, really they didn't take into account for Harden and Westbrooks play this year
     
  15. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    At least these guys have the excuse of making these statements much earlier in the year.

    Harden is a viable MVP candidate 2 of the last 3 years and had a statistically monster season last year with mediocre team success.( Hmmmm sounds a lot like Westbrook this year)

    I agree with the idea that Lebron is the best and there is a clear grouping of 5 behind him but Harden should never be the last of that group. He certainly has no more glaring weaknesses than Curry or Westbrook. Durant plays with another top 6 player in addition to 2 more in the top 20. Curry does the same and is a mediocre defender to boot. Leonard has arguably the best coach of all time along with Aldridge.

    I also don't understand how people can mention Harden's deficiencies and not talk about how Westbrook has nearly identical problems. He turns it over just as frequently and plays just as mediocre defense. If for some reason you want to consider going to the line as a deficiency than guess what, Westbrook also lives there.
     
  16. Easy

    Easy Contributing Member

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    You guys need to stop whining about the media hating on Harden, or the Rockets for that matter. I don't care.

    Was Curry the best player last season? Who cares. He lost the championship. Was he better than Harden the season before that? Who cares. They won.

    Is Leonard better than Harden? I just want to see how his team does in the playoffs.

    The only time when this kind of discussion interests me is if we are talking about whether we should trade a guy for the other one. Or which player we should pursue when they are FA. But none of these players are going anywhere.
     
  17. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    agree with this. every single player has their own case why they should be top 5 or what not. It basically comes down to what your preference is when it comes to the truly elite players in the league.
     
  18. ROXonROXonROX

    ROXonROXonROX Member

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    So I guess a guy who's probably a worse defender than Harden and can't do much else besides shoot is a better player than harden? Harden is averaging a Double-Double with a roster full of mid level players while Curry has the best shooter in Klay and scorer in KD and still can't average double digits in assist? Yea Shaq and Chuck have and will always be Rocket haters especially Harden haters
     
  19. Rockets4Life13

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    Chuck has him at 3rd and curry at 7th. You're right about shaq tho.
     
  20. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    someone doesn't understand the GSW system here
     

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