1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Tim Leger "outburst" Rockets fall to Spurs, Harden's dunk waived off in 4th Qtr

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Shaq2Yao, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Shaq2Yao

    Shaq2Yao Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,285
    Likes Received:
    12,153
  2. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    40,530
    Likes Received:
    34,030
    Should be a foul if you post a video with no recap.
     
  3. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    47,034
    Likes Received:
    55,113
    Football is not basketball. Every touchdown is a judgment call. You cannot compare scoring a TD with making a basket in basketball. There are no judgment calls in basketball when the ball goes through the hoop and clears the net.

    The narrative has taken hold and now I'm less optimistic of a result we want. Everybody hates the Rockets.
     
  4. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    41,204
    Likes Received:
    24,342
    There is no "narrative". Everybody agrees they got the call wrong. Everybody agrees the ball went in the basket. Even Spurs fans will say that.

    They had a 22 point lead. They had a 13 point lead with 8:00 minutes to go when it happened. They blew the call. It's no different than a bad charge call or a bad travel call to wave off a basket. Stuff like this happens nearly every game.

    They blew the game. Deserve the loss. I don't expect them to change the result, and frankly hope they don't, because the team needs to have this loss as a reminder not to blow huge leads, even though they still probably will, because that's what the Rockets love to do.
     
  5. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    47,034
    Likes Received:
    55,113
    Sizzle you are in every thread saying this. A blown charge call, goal tending, or back court violation is not the same as missing a made bucket. It's just not true stop it. There is nothing more definite than a made bucket in basketball. There is no waving off a ball going through the net.
     
  6. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    41,204
    Likes Received:
    24,342
    Explain this to me. I really am curious how it's different. Both, in this example, have the Rockets losing out on 2 points. Sure, last night was more egregious than you'll ever see, but the result is the same.
     
    Bearded13 likes this.
  7. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    13,750
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Keep that same energy when the Rockets get ****ed out of a 2 seed because of one game that we actually DID win. There's no debate about the blown game, but we should be bitching about a 2 point WIN with terrible 4th quarter play.....not a 2 point loss after a 2OT slugfest where our guys took on completely unnecessary minutes. Stop with this "YEAH BUT WE SUCK SO WE DESERVE IT" bullshit. There are rules and review processes in place for a reason, and the NBA completely ****ed up what should have been an OBJECTIVE call based on VIDEO EVIDENCE. That's the only thing that matters here.....not your strawman crap about the Rockets needing to learn a lesson.
     
    Deckard, vinsensual, joshuaao and 6 others like this.
  8. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    13,750
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Because the most objective, black and white, undeniable element of basketball is whether or not the ball went into the ****ing basket. With every other reviewable element of the game, there are gray areas that can create subjectivity. But that ball going into the hoop has ZERO gray area.
     
  9. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,608
    Likes Received:
    7,016
    Huge difference my friend. Goaltending or a charge are a judgement call, sometimes the calls can be right and sometimes they are wrong. One person may view it differently than the other, even when applying the rules.

    A backcourt violation doesn't lead to two points so who cares about this one.

    Last night was an absolute. There is no judgement call about a made basket. The ball went in the hole, it couldn't be anymore clearer than that.
     
  10. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    47,034
    Likes Received:
    55,113
    All these things. I find it weird this is so confusing. @J Sizzle

    I know the Rockets blew the game there is no disputing that. Just like there is no disputing the fact that a made bucket clearing the net is the must indisputable element in all of sports.

    There is nothing more definitive than a ball clearing the net.
     
    RayRay10, D-rock and J Sizzle like this.
  11. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    41,204
    Likes Received:
    24,342
    Totally agree. It was an embarrassment by the NBA. Complete 100% incorrect call that, if Adam Silver had a spine, he'd discipline the officials for, though obviously he will not because the NBA doesn't care about improving its officiating. It is beyond stupid that they will go back and review whether a guy had his foot on the line or if the ball hit somebody first going out of bounds, but they refused to look at whether the ball went in the hoop last night. TOTALLY AGREE. Still...only 2 points. It matters far less than the Rockets being incapable of executing down the stretch.

    I don't really care much about the regular season at this point. The Rockets have done enough in that regard over the years, and will still win 50+ games to make the playoffs. I care about what stuff means for the playoffs, and our continual inability to hold leads due to bad coaching and poor execution matters more to me. I'm sorry...it just does. I choose to focus on that over 1 missed call in a 48 minute game.

    You and @DreamShook seem to think I disagree with you both. I certainly do not! I get it I get it I get it, it's not an either/or thing, but one is certainly more important than the other. I'm okay with it being an unpopular opinion.
     
  12. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    27,952
    Likes Received:
    8,797
    These Youtube videos with sensational headlines are everywhere. It's always Skip Bayless "IMPRESSED" this or Shannon Sharpe "SHOCKED" that.

    I swear those guys are making easy money reposting hot takes from sports guys. I should get in on the action too.
     
    BaselineFade likes this.
  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    24,675
    Likes Received:
    11,434
    Why?

    That missed backcourt violation led directly to a big buzzer beating lob pass and dunk. Why would Spurs fans not be upset over that missed call that led to a emphatic dunk?
     
  14. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    47,034
    Likes Received:
    55,113
    That was a missed call that lead to a basket not a missed made basket. Jeez, man..
     
    34to11 likes this.
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    24,675
    Likes Received:
    11,434
    The missed call led to a empathic slam dunk at the buzzer.

    Your narrative seems like post hoc rationalization. You wouldn't be making this argument if the Rockers lost by two due to a opponent running out of bounds and grabbing a loose ball that led to a score or an opponent scoring right after a blatant backcourt violation.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    107,963
    Likes Received:
    11,073
    I am over it, we did enough to help the Spurs win....we got screwed, finish the game and we are laughing about it.

    FINISH THE ****ING GAME !

    DD
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    35,284
    Likes Received:
    40,392
    The NBA has granted a protest before.

    The Heat with Shaq filed a protest and won.... the remainder of the game was replayed.

    I am not optimistic the NBA sides with the Rockets, but the protest isn't absurd or any of the other crap I am reading.

    Also the Warriors filed a protest a few years ago I didn't hear a damn thing said about it.

    I just think a lot of Rockets fans are sick of being the bridesmaid and not the bride. I get it, but this is a league of dynasties. One team wins each year, and usually once a team wins one, they win a couple more.
     
    RayRay10 and D-rock like this.
  18. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    18,441
    Likes Received:
    45,487
    THANK YOU! Some dudes are so quick to let ref fckery slide. This is not the same as a bad travel or charge call taking away 2 points. This is Harden converting on an uncontested, fastbreak dunk and the refs saying he didn’t.
     
  19. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    35,284
    Likes Received:
    40,392
    https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/...hawks-miami-heat-replay-nba-game-march-8-2008


    Weird NBA: Ten Years Ago, the Hawks Won a Game Without Scoring a Point
    Remembering the facts and figures of Atlanta’s 0-0 “win” over the Heat and other do-over NBA contests of seasons past

    By Shea Serrano Mar 7, 2018
    [​IMG]Getty Images/Ringer illustration
    “You talking about a do-over, baby? Are you talking about a ****ing do-over?! That’s not how the game is played! You can’t do that!” —Avon Barksdale, chewing out a referee who floats the idea of putting a few more seconds back on the clock to replay the final moments of a game that ends on a contested non-call

    One time, the Atlanta Hawks won a game without scoring a single point. It happened 10 years ago on Thursday. It’s one of my favorite Weird NBA things.

    The Hawks were playing the Heat in Atlanta on December 19, 2007. The Hawks were bad that year (they finished the season 37-45, sneaking into the playoffs with the eighth seed in the Eastern Conference), but the Heat were way worse (they finished the season 15-67, putting them last in the entire NBA, which is almost unbelievable considering that Dwyane Wade played in 51 games). The game stayed close for most of the way through (it was actually tied for almost the entire last minute of regulation), and the Heat legit had a chance to win it at the buzzer, but Ricky Davis missed a wide-open 3 (lol), sending the game into overtime. And that’s when the trouble happened.

    During overtime, the Heat’s Shaquille O’Neal, who by then was basically an oil tanker in a basketball jersey, was called for his sixth foul of the night, disqualifying him from participating in the final 51.9 seconds of the game. Shaq sat down, Al Horford hit two free throws to put the Hawks up 114-111, and that was that. Shortly thereafter, the game was over and the Hawks had won 117-111. It turned out, though, that a bookkeeping error had accidentally attributed a fourth-quarter Udonis Haslem foul to Shaq, giving him one more than he really had, meaning really he had only five fouls and should’ve been able to play that 51.9 seconds when he was forced to sit.

    The Heat filed a protest afterward, which was upheld by the NBA several weeks later in January. As such, it was ruled that the Heat and Hawks would replay the final 51.9 seconds of the game when they met again in Atlanta for another Hawks-Heat game on March 8, 2008.

    The stipulations for the replayed game were fairly simple and straightforward: The two teams would replay the final 51.9 seconds prior to the start of that evening’s full-length game, the score would be reset to 114-111, and the Heat would be inbounding the ball. Any of the players who had not fouled out prior to the 51.9 mark would be allowed to participate (Josh Smith had fouled out for the Hawks, so he had to just watch), and any of the players either team had picked up before the trade deadline could play too.

    Some of the more interesting bits:

    • The original Hawks-Heat game was actually the final game of Alonzo Mourning’s career. He suffered a knee injury while trying to block a shot. Two things about that: (1) When the training staff brought the stretcher out for him, he refused to get on it. He later said, “That’s not the way I envisioned myself walking off the court for the last time in my career. I’ve been through so much in my life. If I had to crawl off the court, I would have. Nobody was going to push me off on a stretcher off the court. That wasn’t going to happen.” That’s incredible. (2) The fact that the final play of Alonzo Mourning’s career was him trying so hard to block a shot during an early-season game that he ended up hurting himself is exactly the reason he was such a beloved figure in the NBA. An almost uncountable number of things can happen on any given night in basketball, but “Alonzo Mourning not killing himself to win” isn’t one of them.
    • Pat Riley, who was the coach of the Heat that season, said he filed for a protest because, “We thought we were going to get out of this funk we were in,” referring to how they’d started the season 7-18, not knowing that they were headed toward that abysmal 15-67 finish. “We were fighting for anything. So we protested the game and hoped that we would continue to win then and that we would have a shot at winning this one. But it’s all turned around on us.” I don’t know why “But it’s all turned around on us” is so funny, but it is.
    • The Hawks-Heat replayed game was the first do-over in the NBA in more than 25 years. The one prior to that happened when referees incorrectly called for a jump ball following a double lane violation at the end of a Lakers-Spurs game in 1982. Pat Riley was the coach of the Lakers when it happened.
    • The Heat had traded Shaq away to the Suns during the time that had passed between the original Hawks-Heat game and the replayed one. So, despite the fact he was the central reason the game was being replayed, he did not participate in it. (You can probably use this as an example of how Shaq’s legacy has always been so big and booming that even his shadow wobbles everything around it.)
    • As part of the Shaq-to-the-Suns trade, the Heat received Shawn Marion. The Suns were playing a game the same night as the original Hawks-Heat game, and all of the stats from the replayed Hawks-Heat game were attributed to the original Hawks-Heat game, meaning that Marion is one of only a handful of players to officially be credited with having played for two different NBA teams on the same night.
    • The Hawks and Heat got a 15-minute break between the conclusion of the replayed game and the start of the following game.
    • Nobody scored during the replayed game, which means (a) the Heat lost two games in one night, and also kind of means (b) the Hawks won a game without scoring a point, which is very much an extremely Atlanta Hawks thing. The only more Atlanta Hawks thing I can think of is if they somehow figured out a way to lose a game while scoring more points than the other team.
    There have actually been six replayed games in NBA history. There was the Hawks-Heat game (2007-08) and the Lakers-Spurs game (1982-83) I mentioned above, and so you know those two already. But there was also a Hawks-Warriors game during the 1952-53 season (the oddest part of this one is that the teams were the Milwaukee Hawks and Philadelphia Warriors), a Hawks-Bulls game during the 1969-70 season (the refs couldn’t decide whether a tip-in at the buzzer that had tied the game was before or after the buzzer, so they were just like, “**** it, game over”; the NBA later ruled the basket was good and that the teams would replay the game starting with 0:01 on the clock), a Cavaliers-Braves game during the 1971-72 season, and a Nets-Sixers game during the 1978-79 season. (The 1952-53 Philadelphia Warriors and the 1982-83 Spurs are the only teams to reverse losses into wins after their replayed games.)

    Of all of those, the best one is the Nets-Sixers game because, similar to how the Heat had traded away Shaq during the time between the original Hawks-Heat game and the replayed one, the Nets and Sixers had also made trades during the time between the original Nets-Sixers game and the replayed one, except the trades they made were with each other. As such, three players (Harvey Catchings, Eric Money, and Ralph Simpson) were credited as having played for both teams during the same game.


    (As a bonus Weird NBA thing, Shaun Powell pointed out at NBA.com that Harvey Catchings is the father of Tamika Catchings, a 10-time WNBA All-Star, WNBA champion, and WNBA league MVP, and Ralph Simpson is the father of Grammy-winning recording artist India Arie. Also, you’ll notice the names Henry Bibby and Joe Bryant on the Sixers side of the box score. Henry Bibby is Mike Bibby’s father and Joe Bryant is Kobe Bryant’s father, and Mike and Kobe played against each other in the NBA for 14 years, most notably during the iconic 2002 Western Conference finals between the Sacramento Kings and the Los Angeles Lakers.)

    Weird NBA is fun.
     
    alethios and D-rock like this.
  20. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2000
    Messages:
    24,830
    Likes Received:
    15,660
    meanwhile fakers get homecourt treatment every city they play in...
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now