Think it's time to incorporate a ball-movement offense that gets everyone Involved.

Lol. We're locked in to this iso-heavy, ball-dominant offense as long as James is here. He doesn't even move if he doesn't have the ball.

 

Nah, I just think Harden should push the pace a little more often, and Paul should push the pace a lot more often. Also, Gordon is missing open players all the time. It's good for Gordon to be in attack mode, but sometimes what he's doing is WORKING and defenders are giving up the pass to an open man.

I know MDA's preferred way of playing is to get the shot up ASAP. But if we can spend 14 seconds on Paul/Harden dribbling the ball, I'm sure we can sometimes spend 10 seconds moving the ball to see if the defense is giving other angles up before coming back to Paul/Harden if needed.

Not asking to change the offense, except to go back to more of what we were doing in the first half of last season. We got progressively slower last season and I feel like they don't even remember why we slowed it down or the few benefits of trying to keep the pace up at times. It's their duty to impose the tempo, but choosing the same tempo 100% of the time is a lazy mentality.

 

Used to? I don't think he's properly conditioned to move without the ball.

You can see it any time we need to inbounds the ball and the defense presses Harden. He refuses to move his feet. We see it on defense when his feet are stuck in cement .

He just doesn't like moving his feet when the ball isn't in his hands. It's probably a conditioning issue.

 

no he can't. that's just the player he's become. playing off ball is like the klay/korver/reddick types where you're constantly moving off screens etc. and catch and shoot.

hell never be that type player at this point. he's an iso player. that's just the reality of it. if you want less iso type play, then don't sign iso oriented players

 

We're 9th in offense and 26th in defense. Anyone have any ideas on how to fix the latter? It seems a bit more urgent.

Gordon's comments from Kelly Iko's Athletic article are very eye-opening though. A Ego trade sounds inevitable to me now tbh.

 

Or making Morey happy. ISO works - but it isn’t working this year. We are basically 4 players deep when Gordon is in a funk. That means that teams don’t need to stay home on guys like Clark. Just smother the ball handled, snuff out the roll, and take your chances with our awful shooters.

 

It could be, but it could also be that he's exerting so much energy on offense when he has the ball that he decides to use the off ball time and defense at times to basically rest. Which then goes back to additional benefits of not putting too much in his hands offensively every possession, the benefit of conserving energy for other things. Players have a limited amount of stamina and energy, and there's a max for everyone, not everyone has Iverson like VO2 max.

It isn't simple about offensive efficiency, you might have the same level offense with more ball movement etc, but if you expend less energy to accomplish a similar end, that's a win.

 

Yes, making Morey happy might be part of it too, and you are correct the iso ball works optimally if your shooters are feared, if not you have to work even harder and the court is shrunk.

 

Ah, I would love a team that isn't iso heavy 80% of the time. But player movement dominate offense and Harden are pretty much exclusive.

 

tbh that's no excuse for someone not to be playing off ball. so at the beginning of the game when harden is just watching cp3, is his lack of movement the result of being tired and exerting so much energy. no. he's just not that type of player plain and simple

some people have been harping about harden and his off ball movement for years. hes about to be 30. wake up

 

lol @ the options including "predictable." It must have been hard for OP to restrain himself and not say:

1. Amazing Wonderful Golden State Ball Movement Offense
2. Awful Horrible ISO ball (Preditable) Offense

 

Yup. It's nothing more than lazy legs. Harden suffers from lazy legs and it is most likely due to conditioning and his weight. Hes a bulky guy.

 

If i recall there was quite a bit of ball movement on MDA's teams with Nash.

 

Ball movement or ISO. It is not an "either / or" thing. The Rockets are not the Warriors. They are not the Spurs. They have players that work in their system. The Rockets have players that work in theirs.

ISO has worked for the Rockets. BUT, they probably need to start their actions EARLIER IN THE SHOT CLOCK to get multiple looks. DHOs, cutters etc. Then if those actions fail to yield a quality shot, they have time to fall back onto a Harden ISO which is still a good look.

They have to be disciplined and vigilant in looking for those shots. And early.

Also, when things don't go there way in not getting fouls or if shots are not falling, they can't COMPOUND the situation by not giving a fighting effort on defense.

Don't let go of the rope.

 

Certainly, he's not going to become one of those guys, that would be a ridiculous expectation. It would really have to be integrated into the offense, Harden is not a natural cutter or off ball mover, so just making the sets essentially force him to do those things more, make cuts, etc. This isn't some drastic change I'm talking about.

 

its actually pretty drastic bc again he's not that type of player

 

Adding the Gordon quote...

 

I mean EG doesn't exactly have much room to talk. you can probably count on one hand how many good games hes had this year

 

You can run whatever the hell offense you want. None will work if you shoot 30% from the field.

 

Well, I have no solutions, it's just what it is then