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[TheRinger] The Russell Westbrook Problem (compares Harden to Westbrook)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by RocketsFido, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    https://theringer.com/the-russell-westbrook-problem-54e59db48117#.eybwjkigf

    by Bill Simmons

    An excerpt:

    "Here’s the problem: If you want to make the Finals, or come close, there’s little chance this level of ball hoggery can actually work. I love that Harden’s season is happening concurrently because that’s about as far as you want to take a one-man show. He’s a more efficient shooter than Westbrook (a .620 true shooting percentage, as opposed to Westbrook’s .548) and our only answer to the question, “What if we created Manu Ginobili 2.0 and gave him Chris Mullin’s vision and LeBron’s staggering durability?” And he’s a more creative passer than Westbrook; I would put Harden on LeBron’s level at this point. You’d never watch a clip of Westbrook assists, but you’d definitely watch this."

    "Harden brings out the best of everyone, much like Nash did in Phoenix with better teammates and the same coach. His supporting cast is better than Westbrook’s group, but not by much: Patrick Beverley (splendid role player, world-class agitator); Clint Capela (rim protection, screen-and-rolls); Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson (reborn as dead-eye shooters); Lou Williams (another elite 3s-and-free-throws guy); and so on. Even if Harden hogs the ball about 70–75 percent as much as Westbrook does, the calibration feels better. It looks like a basketball team."
     
    don grahamleone, Ramo$e, Vivi and 6 others like this.
  2. napalm06

    napalm06 #FireBillObrien
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    This is bound to stir up some hornets in OKC.

    And here, actually, now that I read the "supporting cast is better" part.
     
    bmo likes this.
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum It. Deserves. Its. Own. Thread.
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  4. fba34

    fba34 Contributing Member

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    God I hate how suddenly the media is saying Harden has better teammates now that we have a good winning record. Compare to the beginning of the season where everyone thinks we wouldn't make the playoffs in place of all the other improving teams.
     
    Lawlruschang, bmo and DonKnock like this.
  5. bmo

    bmo Member

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    EXACTLY!!!! We were mocked for the Gordon & Anderson signings. Could it be that Harden is elevating his teammates & if you swapped he & Westbrook, OKC would be a top seed in the West? Nah, perish the thought!

    Westbrook is a ball hog like Kobe Bryant was a ball hog. Great player, but selfish. And that was their greatest attribute. Imposing themselves, their will on the game. Whereas Harden's best attribute is getting others involved, which he just happens to need the ball in his hands to do.
     
    Lawlruschang likes this.
  6. lnchan

    lnchan Member
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    The Ringer is very pro-Houston it seems...
    https://theringer.com/nba-2017-mvp-...arden-lebron-james-kawhi-leonard-6a1002acec84

    James Harden
    Riley McAtee: Let’s get the triple-double thing out of the way first. Triple-doubles are arbitrary. Putting two digits on the number “10” is only due to the base-10 number system we, as a species, adopted. And it doesn’t even make sense! Base 12 would divide more evenly into quarters and thirds, but humans have 10 fingers, so we use base 10. And a triple-double is defined through that system, and the arbitrary threshold of 10 points, rebounds, and assists it takes to get one. So it goes.
     
  7. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

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    Mvp vote or gtfo

    Did he vote for harden or not
     
    Lawlruschang likes this.
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It is humorous.

    Before season began: Houston doesn't have the talent to win more than 42ish games. Ryan and Gordon were bad signings and there isn't much talent around Harden who can't play D and MDA sucks now. OKC will win more games!

    After season is over: Harden had so much talent around him plus MDA! Of course they win more than poor Russell who has no one to pass to or help him score or even rebound the ball on FTs!!!! I mean, OKC is so bad they have to use Westbrook to get defensive free throws. And somehow they are in the playoffs against Houston. Westbrook>>>>Harden.
     
  9. nacho bidness

    nacho bidness Member

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    Simmons doesn't care for Westbrook but I'll take the love anyway even if its more a repudiation of another player lol
     
  10. baubo

    baubo Member

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    Personally I don't have a problem with this. The rockets are better gelled and fit Hardens talent, even if no one outside of Houston recognized the obvious.

    What's more sad to me is that this wasn't brought up 2 years ago when the Rockets had terrible 3 point shooters, injuries all over the place, getting the 2nd seed, and no one was talking about how Harden had to overcome teammates that couldn't shoot.

    In the end it's just obvious people pick who they want to win and find reasons to justify it, rather than trying to a player who fits their idea of who an MVP is. Not like anyone was pointing out clutch comebacks 2 years ago with curry when they were blowing teams out. Yet now that's a huge thing that must propel Westbrook to the top.
     
    cbs1507 and snowconeman22 like this.
  11. split41

    split41 Member

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    I've always liked Simmons, he's a Celtics homer for sure, but he's pretty open and honest about his opinions and is willing to listen to other people. This is why KD went on his podcast. The consolation of Harden losing MVP is that knowledgable writers know Harden deserves it. The only people arguing for Westbrook are those who probably watch hardly any NBA games and just look at the box score.
     
  12. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Did you two knuckleheads even read the article?

    "His supporting cast is better than Westbrook’s group, but not by much..."

    This was a very positive article from Simmons heaping praise on Harden and the Rockets -- the quote above is accurate.
     
    split41 likes this.
  13. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    hey man ... we had dmo that year ;)
     
  14. fba34

    fba34 Contributing Member

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    I did when the thread started a while back. WHy?
    I also read the preseason reviews saying we were going to drop off worse than last year's record and teams like Utah, Minnesota, were going to take our spot.
     
  15. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    https://theringer.com/bill-simmons-...-russell-westbrook-kawhi-leonard-4f617e8d5df5

    From Simmons MVP column today...

    "Remember when we came out of the 2016 playoffs raving about how much we liked Steven Adams, Enes Kanter, and Andre Roberson? Why didn’t they get any better? Why wasn’t Adams as devastating in OKC as the Capela-Nene-Harrell trio was for Houston? Why wasn’t Oladipo BETTER on a much better team? Why did they dump Ersan Ilyasova after only three games, and why wasn’t it a bigger deal when he thrived in Philly and Atlanta? Why such a wasted rookie year for Domantas Sabonis? Everyone acts like Russ is playing with the Washington Generals — he has two top-three lottery picks and three other lottery picks in their playing rotation. Kanter and Oladipo have near-max deals. Adams has a nine-figure deal coming. Ilyasova scored 15 a night on Philadelphia. Those guys sucked? If a superstar guarantees you 45 wins, then Westbrook dragged them to … 47 wins? What?"

    This is why Westbrook is not the MVP. He will win MVP, but he's not the MVP.
     
    DudeWah, Fullcourt and Richie_Rich like this.
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I wasn't referring to Simmons specifically
     
  17. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    Too bad Simmons is in the minority as most voters don't seem to do the proper research before voting.
     
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