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The Ultimate Solution

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by MacBeth, Dec 2, 2002.

  1. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

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    Best post I've ever seen on this board. Exactly everything I want to say in EVERY of my post but I just couldn't say it clear like this one. surprisingly even Cat lovers have nice words to it. In my last post I suggested a three way trade that we can get someone like Elton Brand and Brent Barry to complement Yao Ming and Steve's game:

    Hou receive: E. Brand, B. Barry
    LAC receives: Mobley, Griffin, draft pick from Seattle (#14~#18)
    Sea receives: Q. Richardson, K. Thomas


    why LAC makes the trade: Brand didn't get his extension in the summer makes me believe the Clippers, like always, will not commit to their star player w/ big contract and would like to trade them for talants w/ cheap contracts (Griffin, Mobley, & draft pick). Griffin, only 20, still has the potential to be a special one and Mobley gives them a go-to-guy to complement a true point like A. Miller.

    why Seattle makes the trade: Brent Barry is doing well but Desmond Mason makes him expandable. The Sonics has no shot at the ring anytime soon and GP is going to retire in 2 years. they should trade their vet. for young talants and Q. Richardson might be a star in making. Rashard is playing out of position at 4 since Baker traded and they can use a guy like Kenny at the 4 position, and GP loves KT.

    why Houston make the trade: I don't want to waste my time explain why E. Brand & B. Barry are the perfect complement to our franchise players: Yao Ming and Steve Franchis. just read MacBeth's original post and you'll know. Don't worry about re-signing Brand next summer, we'll be able to resign him if we acquire him now (remember how 76ers re-sign Mutombo?) Mobley might be Steve's best friend and I know Griffin is only 20 but Brand and Barry can make this team a title contender. I don't care how much Steve loves the Cat because this is a business and we, the fans, are not paying them big $ just for them to have fun, we deserves some quality basketball to watch.

    this could be our championship lineup:

    Yao Ming, Cato
    E. Band, Taylor
    T. Morris, Nachbar
    B. Barry, Hawkins
    Francis, Norris

    Go Rockets!
     
  2. zilches

    zilches Member

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    I wish we could pare this down to a friendly debate between Timing and MacBeth. That would be very interesting!
     
  3. DavidS

    DavidS Contributing Member

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    I pray that heads will roll at the end of the
    season. We need a tough inside player like
    Brand. Someone that's not affraid to mix it
    up inside!

    I hate our small-ball. And lack of defense.

    Sometimes I think all we have are a bunch
    of wanna-be shooting guards.



    Remember when you mentioned Rudy's
    plays for Hakeem?

    The one thing that scares me about Rudy
    is that I'm starting to think that he just doesn't
    have the understanding (know-how) to put together
    a "complex" offensive scheme.

    I just don't see it in him. If this is true, then how can
    Rudy teach the team how to run a complex offensive
    scheme?

    In the past, all Rudy would do is give the ball
    to the best player on the team and let them
    do all the work (one-on-one). Where's the coaching
    in that?

    I mean, sometimes I think that Yao has a higher
    BB-IQ than Rudy. :eek:
     
  4. madmaxu

    madmaxu Member

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    Alright!! MacBeth....great post
    I only wish things could be as easily fixed as your post described. But then reality will set in and again we'll find ourselves stuck watching a bunch of big egos running more isos.

    And HardRock: stop teasing us with the idea of getting Brand and Barry...you are making me drool over my keyboard:D
     
  5. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    Great analysis Macbeth. The only points where I would differ with you are as far as rebounding is concerned,Yao still has got a lot of work do to with his rebounding and positioning which leads to cheap fouls.In order to run the fast break we need Yao to make outlet passes after he gets a rebound this could help not only Francis but also Mobley and Mo-T as well. Griffin is fairly good at rebounding but he needs get a little stronger so he can bang.Right now Cato is our best rebounder apart from Francis but he is not a good passer but he can score some points,and at least has the physical strength to push out big players and also to block some shots. However to eventually succeed we should follow the plan that you have laid out.
     
  6. hamachi

    hamachi Member

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    Great stuff Macbeth. The only thing that worries me is Steve's abiity to run the break. You still need court vision and smarts to run an effective freelance fast break -- maybe just as much as or more than pure speed and athleticism.
     
  7. TBar

    TBar Contributing Member

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    Outstanding post Macbeth. This is a synthesis of ideas I have read- the synthesis is original to you. This has really helped put things in perspective.

    thank you...
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Jag,.....is that you??????

    :)

    Nice post Macbeth, well said, and I concur with all of your points.

    DaDakota
     
  9. DavidS

    DavidS Contributing Member

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    Macbeth writes the best short-stories; a Wordsmith. :cool:

    WAG writes the most hilarious game summaries; a Part-time comedian :D
     
    #29 DavidS, Dec 2, 2002
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2002
  10. kermit

    kermit Member

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    Good post MACBETH, I think the guy you're talking about could be Aaron Mckie, or maybe not. WHO KNOWS? All I know is it really doesn't appear to be RUDY!

    I love the guy but I really would drop half of our team off at the ####ing playground if they can't grasp the concept of a team game.

    Go back to the DReam and Drexler plays and teach these guys how to come up with a bread and butter.

    We have so many pieces if Rudy would just give them a role to accept.

    And if they couldn't accept that role, bench them or send them on the first available flight back to the playground they could never let go of.

    Whose gone have the balls to step up and make this team a unit, it's either Rudy or Francis, one of them has to be a leader!
     
  11. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    Timing,I'm beginning to feel that our players are not good or smart enough to implement a motion offense like the Kings do although it takes a lot of time to get everyone working efficiently in a new system.
     
  12. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    DCKid...still waiting...;)

    Pasox...While I agree in principle, I disagree in particulars...Rather than a Fitch, I would advocate more of a Winters type...Offensive tactician/strategist.

    Timing...The problem with installing a Dallas type of offense here is the overall basketball intelligence. Dallas has smart-to-very-smart players at every position, which is integral to that type of offense..It's a read and react, and they all can do both. For us to do the same would be akin to installing a run and shoot with wr's that can't diagnose, but are exceptional athletes. The reason I suggest funnelling the decision making component of the 1/2 court offense through Yao Ming is that he has the requisite basketball intelligence that most of his teammates ( relatively speaking ) lack.

    arno_ed...I agree that, before his injury, Mobley was making progress...My problem with that is that he is naturally a great scorer, and unatural at most other things. To ask him to make that kind of 'progress' when it would still mean him having a reduced role in the offense would be to devalue him as a player. He has one exceptional strength, and we have relatively little need or room for it in the new system I am advocating, or indeed with the other players we need to focus on irrespective of system. I suggest that it would be a disservice to him to reduce his role as a scorer, and a disservice to the team to maintain it...Therefore I suggest the alternative solutions stated above.

    reptile...I agree that zones account for fixed place offenses a lot more...and I agree that we need more movement. I think that a Dream type offense with Yao Ming as the center in question, and with Steve as the primary offensive option ( as opposed to say, Kenny Smith) will be a natural variation. Yao Ming will be a lot more pass-oriented, has a lot more court vision, and a lot less physical ability to dominate double and triple teams that Hakeem had, so it would organically become more of a team offense. This would, I suggest, bring us the type of cohesion and mobility needed to counter a zone.

    solid...agreed, and that is why I put the ball in the hands of the man who is intelligent...

    montgo...I am not sure under what circumstances you might have otherwise read anything I have written...I used to be JAG, if that's what you mean.

    Drex22...That is a very tempting move, and does seem to be mutually beneficial. Almost precisely the kind of move which might help address our inbalanced roster.

    Hard Rock...Not so sure the Clipps make those moves, though. I believe that, cheap as he is, Sterling recognizes that Brand is the surest thing he's got, and is building if not 'around' him, at least with him a part of the foundation. Were it to be a matter of economics, I doubt Sterling makes the move to get Brand in the first place, or Miller this year. I think we have to assume that the Clippers have shifted priorities, at least for the present, and the non-economic rationale for them to trade Brand, and Richardson, for Cuttino, Eddie and a draft pick is dubious. Why do they want to, at best, take a step or two backwards in their building phase?

    DavidS...I agree with almost everything you said except the need for a Brand...I don't think we need more star quality players, I think we need more complementary players. I remember when we had Pippen and Barkley and Dream, and Matt Maloney..and when we lost people said that we needed Gary Payton instead of Malloney, that that would be what puts us over the top...I felt that we already had too many cooks, not enough waiters and bus boys, and here we wanted another Cordon Bleau..

    saleem...I agree that, for the present, Yao Ming is a work in progress, and rebounding is not the least of his areas needing improvement. I just think that we need to start planning on our future now, and allow for the growing pains as soon as possible, so that they don't kick in and disrupt things down the road when we are a legit contender.

    DaDakota...yes, this is JAG...lol...I'm really not sure why either of us is laughing...:D


    kermit...don't have enough information on McKie...Why do you feel that he is an ideal candidate? I should clarify that I am not advocating replacing Rudy, just interested in what you feel McKie brings to the table...


    To everyone else, especially those of you who were so positive, thanks for your interest and very nice words. If I didn't address your post directly, it was because I interpreted your comments to mean that you and I were on the same page, and was only really addressing points which I either wanted to clarify, had minor disagreements with, or were not addressed in my original post. Again, thank you for the very warm reception to my post.
     
    #32 MacBeth, Dec 3, 2002
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2002
  13. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    MacBeth... I agree with your assessment of our offense in that we should run thru Ming and that a Dallas/Sac. offense will not work because of our players. I do not however agree that it has to do with their “basketball IQ”. The Rockets are a different basketball team talent-wise than Dallas which does not have a dominant center in the post. The Mavs. and Kings have to generate points away from the basket to open up the paint, the Rockets on the other hand need to create in the paint to open up the perimeter. While I agree with your philosophy on our offense I believe that the lack of b-ball IQ is only demonstrated in the fact that our players/coaches don’t see that we need to start our half-court offense in the paint.

    I really don’t think that the coaches can’t see this fact if it is so obvious to the rest of us.
     
  14. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    Phew! It took me 24 hours to finish it, but now I'm ready. :D

    Nice read! I think the "history" you gave leading up to the current state of the Rockets was spot on. As for the future, I agree with you on some things and disagree on others. I tried to touch on as much as I could.

    Agree

    1.) Steve should be looking to push the ball up the floor on fast breaks and maybe do a bit more "cherry-picking," because soon he will no longer be needed to rebound as much as he has in the past.

    2.) Halfcourt offense must go through Yao Ming

    3.) Kenny doesn't fit, and should not be on the Rockets squad for any longer than the remainder of this season, barring some unexpected and unlikely change in his performance or the way he plays his game.

    There were several other things I agreed with, but the disagreements are more fun to write about. :)


    Disagree (some of these aren't neccesarily disagreements, just responses to some of the things you mentioned)

    1.) T-Mo. Sorry, I don't see him being the future of anything. I believe he reached his peak as a sophmore in college, and is not anything more than a 10th man on an NBA team.

    2.) You're counting on Nachbar and Eddie to be integral parts of the team. This is risky, because so far they haven't shown that. I'm not willing to declare either of them definite, core players for the Rocket's future. Although, I do think they have promise. I'm just not ready to start shaping the Rockets around them...yet.

    3.) I hate the so-called "defensive stoppers," who are perimeter players with virtually no offensive game. If they are inside players then I don't mind it, because a good interior defender is about five times more valuable than a good perimeter defender. Perimeter guys who only have defense and no offense really irk me. I couldn't have been happier when Shandon Anderson was gone. I think the losses those type of players provide on offense supercede the gains those players bring on defense, especially since I think the Rockets should start using a zone more anyway. This is why I think guys like Juaquin Hawkins, Morris, and Thomas are nothing more than role players off the bench.

    4.) I don't know if you suggested the Rockets make a trade this season, but in my opinion the team should not be changed at all this year, unless a deal comes along that the Rockets just can't refuse. I think more than anything this team needs to be given an entire season to come together. Then, the Rockets can trade the players who don't seem to fit over the offseason, or just let them go.

    5.) I agree if Mobley never changes the way he plays, he is a prime candidate for a trade. However, I don't think he has been given enough time to prove he can change. I believe the last three seasons the Rockets have needed Mobley to be the first or second option on the team, because there just wasn't anyone else. Now, the Rockets have a lot more to work with, and Mobley is going to have to adjust after being required to be the go-to guy for the majority of his NBA career. If you noticed, Cat's shot attempts have already decreased from last year. I'm hoping he'll take it even further now, and focus on taking the "right" shot attempts. I think a Cuttino, who is making smarter decisions, is just too talented of a player to let go. A lot of people would realize just how phenomenal of an outside shooter Cuttino is if he lets the shots come to him, rather than the high degree-of-difficulty shots he has attempted in the past. If you study his shooting form, look at his free-throw shooting, and observe the soft touch he has displayed when his shots bounce on the rim a couple of times before they go in, you'll realize just how good of a shooter he really is. And on a team that is arguably the worst shooting team in the league, I think it would be a mistake to say goodbye to Cuttino.

    6.) Also, I have to disagree about Cuttino's defense. While it's definitely not great, I think saying it is below average is going a little too far. And this also goes back to my belief that perimeter defense is overrated. If a team has good interior defenders, the team will have a good defense. If a team has good perimeter defenders, the team could still have a bad defense if the interior defense isn't there. That is just my opinion, and the reason I would never consider starting Hawkins over Mobley.

    Some things I would like to see the Rockets do:

    1. Steve doesn't take quite as many outside shots and focuses on getting the ball to Yao Ming or driving to the basket and drawing fouls.

    2. Rockets run screens to free Mobley up for open "catch-and-shoot" looks.

    3. Rockets drop the ball into Yao Ming in both the low post AND the high post. I think giving Ming the ball in the high post or at the free-throw line is something that is not being taken advantage of. Having him with the ball right in the middle of the floor with his ability and smarts would provide so many different options it's not even funny. You would free him up by setting off-the-ball screens in the low post, allowing Ming to come up and receive the ball, kind of like the Jazz have done with Karl Malone for the past decade and a half.

    4. Eddie needs to toughen up. I think its inevitable he will eventually be a top-five defensive player in the league once he is able to stand his ground. When Eddie and Yao reach their prime as defenders, the perimeter defense or lack thereof just isn't going to be very important.

    5. Yao Ming becoming comfortable enough around his teammates to start demanding the ball. And I don't mean yell at his teammates, I mean when he's on the floor he needs to fight for position in the post more often leaving his teammates no other choice but to give him the ball. Too often right now he looks to be hesitant in getting position to recieve the ball, and when that happens he just sets a pick and ends up completely out of the play. Until this changes Ming will continuously be putting on a "Disappearing Act."

    6. And finally, bring in Jon Barry this offseason! :p Or if not Jon Barry, somebody else who can shoot the ball.
     
    #34 DCkid, Dec 3, 2002
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2002
  15. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

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    I have three words for you:
    "TRI-AN-GLE"

    Also, we need to teach the rocket players the meaning of the phrase "pick and roll." it doesn't mean set a pick, the turn your back on the guy with the ball and jog to your next position. roll to the basket! the pick and roll is a much about getting the guy setting the pick an open shot as it is about freeing-up the man w/ the ball!
     

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