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The tide continues to turn: Bush numbers hit new low

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Batman Jones, Sep 6, 2003.

  1. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member
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    http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=732

    Released: September 06, 2003

    Bush Numbers Hit New Low; Dean Tops List of Democratic Presidential Contenders, New Zogby America Poll Reveals

    President George W. Bush’s job performance ratings have reached the lowest point since his pre-Inauguration days, continuing a steady decline since a post-9/11 peak, according to a new Zogby America poll of 1,013 likely voters conducted September 3-5.

    Less than half (45%) of the respondents said they rated his job performance good or excellent, while a majority (54%) said it was fair or poor._ In August Zogby International polling, his rating was 52% positive, 48% negative._ Today’s results mark the first time a majority of likely voters have given the president an unfavorable job performance rating since he took office.

    A majority (52%) said it’s time for someone new in the White House, while just two in five (40%) said the president deserves to be re-elected._ Last month, 45% said re-election was in order, and 48% said it was time for someone new.

    A like number (52%) said the country is heading in the wrong direction, while 40% said it is the right direction.

    Overall opinion of President Bush has also slipped to 54% favorable – 45% unfavorable, compared to August polling which indicated 58% favorable, 40% unfavorable.

    Just two in five (40%) said they would choose Bush if the election were held today, while 47% said they would elect a Democratic candidate._ In August polling, respondents were split (43% each) over President Bush or any Democratic challenger.

    In the same poll, likely Democratic primary voters give a plurality of their support to former Vermont Governor Dr. Howard Dean (16%), whose campaign has been gathering support in recent polling._ He is followed by Massachusetts Senator John Kerry (13%), Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman (12%), and Missouri Congressman Richard Gephardt (8%)._ No other candidate polled more than 3%._

    Nearly two-thirds (63%) of the likely Democratic primary voters said it is somewhat or very likely that President Bush will be re-elected in November 2004, regardless of how they intend to vote.

    The Zogby America poll involved 1,013 likely voters selected randomly from throughout the 48 contiguous states using listed residential telephone numbers._ Polling was conducted from Zogby International’s Call Center in Utica, NY._ The poll has a margin of sampling error of +/- 3.2%. The Democratic candidates’ portion of the poll involved 507 respondents, and has a margin of error of +/- 4.5%.
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I love the trend. I think the pessimism of the "likely Democratic primary voters" reflects their uncertainty over who the Democratic nominee is. No one has caught fire yet. If someone can fire up Democrats and Independents, and who that is remains to be seen, then Bush is highly vulnerable.

    Bush's inadequacies are being exposed.
    With the right Democratic candidate, he's ripe for defeat.
     
  3. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member
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    Deckard,

    I think it's more likely they just haven't noticed the trend. The more polls like this they see, the more confident they'll be. I wish this poll had had individual matchups. Even so, it's nice to see the American people waking up from this long nightmare.
     
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Yes it is. I was beginning to wonder. There is hope that the country will save itself from this nightmare Administration. No matter how much money Bush has to spend.

    I think of what Gandalf said in Jackson's "The Two Towers"...
    "I come to you at the turning of the tide... "

    The Democrats need someone to make the nation feel the return of hope and confidence that things will change for the better. Someone who will follow through on it, too. Who??


    (I felt strange quoting "Gandalf", but it seemed to fit my mood.)
     
  5. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    Eh. I'm not real big on polls, but it will be interesting to see what they look like on Monday morning after Bush finally speaks to the nation on Sunday night.

    Still, I'm not too worried at this point. At worse, I see the 2004 election being somewhat like the 96 election with the incumbent winning by default.
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    deleted. I must have been too tired last night.

    Regarding Bush's speech. This is no accident. His polling shows the tide is turning. Bush is fading and so is support for his war and occupation. Below is an interesting article from the Guardian.

    This is an interesting delimna for Bush and gang. If Iraq continues as it is, he will lose the election and eventually just go down in history as a dishonest guy who wasted a lot of America's strength for bogu s reasons. If he can continue with his plans his crowd makes one of the great financial killings of all time. What is he to do?
    *************
    Bush seeks an exit strategy as war threatens his career

    The President will make a dramatic U-turn on Iraq in a TV broadcast tonight to try to salvage his hopes of re-election amid Americans' growing hostility to the casualties and chaos. Report by Paul Harris in New York, Jason Burke and Gaby Hinsliff

    Sunday September 7, 2003
    The Observer

    George Bush will attempt tonight to convince the American people that he has a workable 'exit strategy' to free his forces from the rapidly souring conflict in Iraq, as Britain prepares to send in thousands more troops to reinforce the faltering coalition effort.
    Frantic negotiations continued this weekend in New York to secure a United Nations resolution that would open the way for other countries to deploy peacekeeping troops to help after Bush - with one eye on next year's presidential election - signalled a change of heart on America's refusal to allow any but coalition forces into Iraq.

    The President has been left with little practical choice. Concern among the American public has reached such a pitch that, with his approval ratings plummeting, he will deliver a televised address to the nation tonight to reassure them that they do not face another Vietnam. With their sons and daughters dying daily in guerrilla attacks, Americans may now be becoming more frightened of being bogged down in a hostile country than of the terrorist threat against which Bush has pledged to defend them.

    Meanwhile in London, with MPs due to return to Westminster tomorrow after the long summer recess in no mood to be generous, the Prime Minister faces fresh scrutiny of Britain's role in the rapidly souring peace. Bush's change of heart over the UN is potentially good news for Tony Blair, who has long discreetly tried to persuade him down this route: if successful, it could eventually allow Britain to scale back its troops, and help repair the diplomatic rift with the European Union caused by the abandoning of the UN process before the war.

    In the short term, however, troop numbers will have to rise instead. Geoff Hoon, the embattled Defence Secretary, will make a statement to the Commons tomorrow. He is expected to confirm the departure of up to 2,000 British soldiers to the Basra area: the first 120 soldiers are leaving Cyprus this weekend. With routine defence questions tabled for the Commons tomorrow as well, and two debates on defence later this week, rebel Labour MPs will be queuing up to condemn the handling of the peace where once they condemned the war.

    The question now being asked on both sides of the Atlantic is how the allies could find themselves in such trouble. One key mistake both Washington and London made was to assume that, once Baghdad fell, countries such as France and Germany, which had stood on the sidelines, would relent and offer peacekeeping troops. They underestimated the unexpected domestic popularity of anti-war leaders.

    'That was the diplomatic advice. That was what we believed would happen, and it didn't,' said one Whitehall source. 'What we were unable to read was how popular the decision [to stay out of Iraq] would be in the long run for the leaders who took it.'

    In New York, diplomats were upbeat last night about the chances of securing a UN resolution allowing troops to operate under a UN mandate but with the US retaining operational command. One source in the office of the UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan said such an agreement could 'transform the occupation'.

    Complications remain, however. The French and, to a lesser extent, the Germans are playing it tough, aware that they have Bush over a barrel, British sources say. 'They can squeeze more concessions out of Bush at the moment and they know it,' one source said.

    Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, who flew to Lake Garda in Italy for an informal meeting with his European Union counterparts late last week, is attempting to mediate between EU governments and the White House, but have want a fundamental shift in US policy on Iraq. Sticking points include a firm timetable for handing over power to Iraqi authorities, drawing up a constitution and holding elections.

    Other anti-war nations, such as Russia, China and Germany, have signalled that they expect a deal. 'It is a remarkable change for the better,' Chile's UN ambassador and Security Council member Heraldo Munoz told The Observer.

    After being sidelined in the build-up to the war the UN is now moving centre stage, but it the risks of becoming embroiled in a dangerous, unpredictable mission means few nations will be willing to take casualties without securing serious concessions. 'The US has come seeking assistance and there will be a price for it,' said one senior UN diplomat.

    But Bush has now accepted the warnings of his Secretary of State Colin Powell and the more hawkish Under Secretary John Bolton that there will be a worse price if he doesn't back down. Bush's approval ratings have sunk to around 55 per cent - around 20 points lower than those of his father after the 1991 Gulf War.

    Bush Senior still went on to lose the next election: and the American economy is more fragile now than it was then. The nation can ill afford the extra $60 billion the White House is expected to ask Congress to occupy and rebuild Iraq next year, and sabotage to Iraqi oil pipelines and infrastructure means oil revenues will not rescue them.

    Although the polls show Bush would still beat any likely Democrat contender, Bolton argues that approval ratings are a better guide. Voters feel it is unpatriotic to threaten to vote against a President during a war, so the polls could underestimate Bush's plight.

    The Democrats, who once saw Iraq as their weakness, now scent blood: last week's live televised debate between eight Democratic candidates echoed to easy potshots at the President, with front-runner Howard Dean saying it was time for troops to come home.

    ...
    Similarly in Washington, a rapid revision of the pecking order in the White House is going on, with the hawks wrongfooted by the unravelling of their thesis on Iraq. 'They were true believers, and are stunned by the fact that its not worked out,' said the University of San Francisco political scientist Richard Stoll.

    A classified report drawn up by the US US Joint Chiefs of Staff and leaked last week blamed hurried and inadequate planning for the crisis, with too great a focus on an invasion and not enough on organising the peace. As the leading dove, Powell's stock is now rising in the White House, while that of the President's hawkish National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, is judged to be falling.

    'Condi Rice is in trouble,' said one Whitehall source.

    'She has been consistently wrong since this thing started, wrong about what would happen, and Colin Powell has been consistently right.' The Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's insistence during a trip to Iraq last week that the situation was 'getting better every day' is also ringing increasingly hollow.

    Rumbling in the background in America, meanwhile, is the same debate that is at the foreground of Westminster politics: question marks over intelligence. Although the official line in Washington is that weapons of mass destruction are still being looked for, there is no sign of the 38,000 litres of deadly botulintoxin or the 25,000 litres of anthrax or the 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent claimed by Bush in his State of the Union speech last January as a justification for going to war.

    The President has much to explain to the American people when he takes to the airwaves tonight.

    bush's u-turn
     
    #6 glynch, Sep 7, 2003
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2003
  7. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Contributing Member

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    Bush controls the White House, Supreme Court, Senate, House and the voting machines: he's not going anywhere.

    But, dammit, I love a challenge!
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Yeah, little Cicero will deliver a stirring oration that will dazzle with its eloquence....

    or not.
     
  9. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    A lot of things can happen in little over a year....
     
  10. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

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    true dat

    this is the 7th inning, and the losing team has the tying run on first, not quite in scoring position.
     
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