The Offical "Do Something, Morey!" Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Carl Herrera, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    On the message boards, for sure.
     
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  2. Mr Chuck Norris

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    Something else!
     
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  3. DonKnock

    DonKnock Member

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    The Pelicans pick is top 3 protected.

    The Kings pick is going to Philly if it's higher than Philly's and then they also lose a pick to Chicago next year. if it's out of top 10 they lose it to Chicago.

    There is a highly plausible scenario where the Kings don't even get to pick in the first round this year..


    Also, thinking the Kings come out ahead in this situation means having faith in the KIngs drafting prowess...
     
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  4. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Saying the Kings could of or should of gotten more for Cousins is fine. But that does not equate to the Rockets being the team to bring the better offer.

    We can't match that offer. When teams feel they must trade a young superstar, they want picks and Hield is still pretty much considered a pick. imo, that's two immediate 1st rounders and a decent 2nd, where the worst of the firsts is still about 10 picks better than ours.

    It 's an ugly trade. Can't imagine them getting better, but that's what they get for failing to win with Cousins. They had their shot, and they should let him go, if he wants. But man, no way they want Capela and Dekker and our 1st and 2nd, over those two better picks. And I believe the prove they don't want that is because Morey damn sure makes that trade.
     
  5. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I'm not sure. I think we could beat that offer if we wanted to, but I'm not convinced we would want to. If that player had been Paul George I'm sure we would be willing to offer Capela, Dekker, a 1st and 2nd in this draft and another future first. That beats what the Pelicans traded. Again though, we wouldn't offer that for Cousins and no one else would either. But for George? We would for sure, but problem then becomes that more teams would want George than Cousins and our offer gets trumped pretty easily by a team willing to give up a high first.

    Summary? We don't have the assets to beat offers for true superstars without the flaws of Cousins and we aren't going to be willing to beat offers for flawed players.

    Womp womp.
     
  6. thekad

    thekad Member

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    Hield is only considered a high draft pick by a organization as dumb as the Kings. He's older and much worse than the Rockets collection of decent young guys.

    In reality, it's something like the 15th pick, the 25th pick (Hield) and the 38th pick for Cousins and Casspi. Most teams in the league could match that. The Kings are just very, very poorly run.
     
  7. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    It's also very possible that other teams COULD beat that offer but chose not to. Fans like to ignore it, but Cousins has a lot of baggage and there is definitely fear that he could disrupt your team chemistry/culture. If you are a winning team that's a big risk.
     
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  8. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I did say the Kings probably coulda or shoulda got more. I said Rockets couldn't beat that, except in our random trade threads.

    I mean, you go from saying the Kings are dumb to consider Hield still a top 10 pick to saying he's "much worse" than Dekker, then assign him #25 pick value, which is probably Dekker's value. You're all over place. Which is it, is he much worse than Dekker, or same value, or do you believe Dekker can land a pick significantly higher than 25.
     
  9. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    I think either I am or you are misunderstanding the draft obligations.

    The Kings now have:

    Pels pick top 3 protected, which they will get because it will 99% not be top 3.
    They have the second rounder via NO via Philly, which they will get no matter what.
    They get Buddy Hield, Galloway + Evans expiring contract.

    Then aside from this trade, they have their own #11 pick which Philly can swap with or Chicago can receive BUT both obligations are top 10 protected and there is no way they will not end up in the bottom 10 teams. Safe to say after this trade, they are going to be in that top 10 and Philly/Chicago obligations are deferred. But their own pick has nothing to do with what they got for Cousins.

    I don't have faith in them to draft well, but I'm just saying that's a good haul for a player who no one else was willing to offer a better pick for. Boston has something like 3-4 first rounders and they wouldn't go near him. Kings will get Hield, the (right now #9) Pelicans pick and the #35.

    In terms of rebuilding they can add that haul to their own (right now #11) first rounder and their (right now #41) second rounder, both of which they are likely to keep given they are going to lose a lot the rest of the way.

    Not a bad way to start a rebuild.
     
  10. hvic

    hvic Member

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    also scratching his butt
     
  11. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

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    I believe Dekker's value at this point to be the equivalent of a pick in the 11-13 range. Sam isn't just a versatile guy who can play D. He's a scorer who can get to the bucket and finish... also, look for that % from downtown to improve over the next few years. Triple Dekker's just getting started, and I'd like to see him do it with us. But, if the right deal comes along...for a big fish....gotta say adios.
     
  12. HayesIsBack

    HayesIsBack Member

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    The thing is, right now, teams are trying to emulate the Spurs and Warriors. Culture and team chemistry is important. Look at the Rockets. We probably didn't get much better on paper, but playing the right way with good team chemistry can make a big difference.

    You look at a team like Brooklyn without any of their own 1st round pick until 2099 ... and they won't go near low character players even if it would help them win 10 more games a season now. Then you look around at how many teams trying to hire ex-Spurs front office/coaching staff. Hawks, Boston have done fairly well in recent years.

    I just think good teams aren't willing to fork over much for Cousins, and bad teams probably want in on draft picks more than Cousins. Then there's the badly managed team with pressure to win now, mortgaging the future on a high risk high reward player like Cousin, that could end very badly. Pelicans.
     
  13. thekad

    thekad Member

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    Huh? Let me help you out here:

    1) Kings consider Hield a TOP 5 pick. That is very dumb.
    2) Hield is older and worse than Dekker.
    3) Hield is worth a late first round pick.
    4) Dekker is worth a mid first round pick.
    5) Dekker + Houston 1st + stuff matches what the Kings received as do many mediocre offers almost every team in the league could scrounge together.
    6) The Kings organization is bad.
     
  14. HajkoV-BR

    HajkoV-BR Member

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    Do something! I´m Serious!
     
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  15. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    We can look at recent trades for picks since last deadline and test this.

    imo, the closest tests are trades leading up to the draft and during the draft. This is just a quick list, not sure how complete, but it does show some good, recent historical perspective.

    -- 2016​
    • Jeff Teague (an All-Star) landing Atlanta a #12 pick via a three team trade.
    • Thaddeus Young (what does Dekker have on him other than age) landed a 20th pick (plus future 2nd)
    • Marco Belinelli a 22nd ... teams do put premium on shooting, and he shot 43% for 3s on a Title team
    • DMo for a #14 or so, but presumably (hence the void) for a *fully healthy* DMo
    • Sabonis (the 11th) is hard to measure in isolation in that big trade...combined with ORL stupidity
    -- 2015​
    • Mason Plumlee for a #23

    And we should also consider that teams rarely part with lottery picks, unless part of a bigger deal. There seems to be like an invisible barrier, where picks are harder and harder to get the higher they are. So, you can't really say Player X has such and such more value than others and plot that on a linear line of draft pick value. Values of draft picks are not linear, or we'd see more ppl trading into the Top 10 on draft day by trading existing players, vs teams standing pat or trading down.
     
  16. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Even if all that is true, you didn't match what the Kings got.

    I think putting #25 value on Hield is highly arguable, and Dekker at #15 is too high, too, but I'll give you that ... so let's see:

    Houston
    • Dekker at #15 value (this valuation is arguable)
    • Rockets #28th pick
    • plus mid 2nd rounder (say Denver's or Portland's)
    NOP
    • Own 15th pick (fair enough??)
    • Hield at #25 value (this valuation is highly arguable)
    • high 2nd rounder
    • $10m in expiring contract of Tyreke
    imo, you still didn't beat that. And if you say, well, I'll throw in Capela, as if it offset Tyreke's expiring, or NOP can't still outbid that.
     
  17. BimaThug

    BimaThug Contributing Member

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    FYI, those PHI/CHI obligations will not be deferred:
    (1) If SAC's first rounder is in the top 10 picks this year, their obligation to CHI converts instead to being SAC's 2017 second rounder.
    (2) PHI's swap rights do not carry over to future years. (PHI does, however, also own SAC's 2019 first rounder outright!)
     
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  18. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    wow...that's essentially a trade (by making whatever previous trade that led to the obligation better). in other words, Divac says "We need to get temporarily worse (Tyreke should help with that. :D) in whatever trade we do, so we get a Top 10 pick in exchange for a 2nd rounder".
     
  19. BimaThug

    BimaThug Contributing Member

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    Yep. That had to heavily factor into the Kings' decision to trade Boogie. Tanking the rest of this season instead of trying to make the playoffs essentially nets them another lottery pick (their own).
     
  20. Deuce

    Deuce Contributing Member

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    @heypartner yeah, the Kings need to get worse to get their pick this year. That's why they are shopping Collison, Afflalo etc
     
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