Well, it looks like the murdering state of Texas will put to death another inmate that has some serious questions regarding his conviction. Gary Graham, while no saint (he should be in prison, no doubt), should not have been convicted of this murder. One eyewitness, no physical evidence, and two witnesses who would have testified on behalf of Graham were not allowed to testify results in a death sentence. This is ludicrous. I support the death penalty. But I want to be absolutely positive that the people we kill are the right ones. How can Bush be so positive that Texas has never executed an innocent man, yet Illinois, who's executed a lot less than Texas, placed a moratorium on executions because it was shown that nearly a third of all convictions were either wrong or flawed in some way. The best solution to this would be to require ALL lawyers to perform a certain amount of pro bono work per year. That way, the defendants who receive "defense" from lawyers who sleep through trials, or don't do their job will diminish. Well, here's hoping the Supreme Court steps in and does the right thing in this case. There's just too many questions to be sure. ------------------ "Go to hell Costas"-Dave Nelson after sweeping the ABSCAs on NewsRadio visit www.swirve.com
The best solution would be to keep anyone who kills another in prison for life, no ifs, ands, or buts. Remove their threat to society permanently, no one escapes from maximum security prisons. If they can prove their innocence they should be freed immediately. We are still the only 1st world democracy in the world I believe to have capital punishment. Other democracies have concluded it is impossible to take out bias and politics from the courts, and that the official sanction of taking another’s life is simply not wise because of the inevitability of human error and the underlying potential of political influence in the process. If you want to take a cost based approach or analysis, the death penalty doesn't come out well then either. We spend 2-5 times the money in court costs to invoke a death penalty sentence than it does to keep the average life-spanned convicted murder in prison until his/her death. Of course we could reduce the court costs (reduce appeals, government paid defense), but then we increase the chance for a government sponsored killing of an innocent person. I know it is a difficult issue because far too many people are killed, or touched by it, in this society (our homocide rate is far higher than the afore mentioned countries). But from just about any angle I look at this issue, the death penalty is just not part of the solution to our atrocious epidemic. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited June 22, 2000).]
I don't agree with you guys here. The witness to the crime said she looked at this guy for a long time(I guess 1 and a 1/2 minutes isn't that long) to make sure she knew the face. He committed multiple robberies and assaults(attempted murders by shooting people) before the murder. Just because there is no DNA evidence is not a reason for him to live. He can say whatever he wants because he doesn't want to die(duh). Also, a lot of other people came forward claiming he bragged about the murder. He even told one bailiff in the court room after the trial that "...next time I won't leave any witnesses". This guy is far from innocent. His case has been through several appeals and not one shred of evidence has contradicted his guilt. Granted, one witness could be wrong but she claims she has never been so sure about anything in her life and saw him from multiple angles during the crime. Their argument on the defensive is that it was the first picture shown to her....ummm....who the hell cares if it was the first or last??? I don't think that means you would automatically say it was him just because it was the first picture shown to you. Give me a break! (Note: I think it was also the only picture of a short-haired guy versus other guys with bushier hair; I guess from 40 feet away and 9:30 pm at night could be a problem although she claims there was plenty of light in the supermarket parking lot). This guy is scared. Sure, he wants to live. Who wouldn't? He will do or say anything to live(again...duh). This guy did a lot of bad things(robberies, shooting people) leading up to this murder. Maybe, if he really is innocent, he shouldn't have done the things that led up to his arrest and conviction(because they didn't help). I feel bad for the guy but I feel worse for the victim and if someone is 100% sure that he is the guy, then you have to take her word for it. Apparently, the jury did and thought the testimony was credible. Just because he didn't have Johnny Cochran defending him is no excuse. If he did, maybe he would have been another OJ Simpson getting off free. I don't think he's innocent. The eyewitness could be full of ****...who knows? His time is up...unfortunately. You can't discount a witness just because there is no DNA evidence but she could be mistaken(won't be the first time). This case has been appealed to death(so they say). People who kill should be killed themselves or else they will be released and do it again as we have seen(obviously not in a Life with no Parole scenario). Well, the Tx. Board didn't help him any. Wouldn't even commute his sentence although that was the closest vote(3 to 1 I think). Another reason I think he is guilty is he had no alibi and said he was at his girlfriends yet he could not produce a name, an address, or a witness(he couldn't remember or recall...umm?). Come on...it doesn't add up...not at all. Maybe he shouldn't die but should people be allowed to kill people and live on in a cell protected with food, clothing, etc.....hell NO!! If he did it, he shouldn't live. If he didn't, it's a travesty of justice and a flaw in the system. Noone wins either way. Surfguy ------------------ [This message has been edited by Surfguy (edited June 22, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Surfguy (edited June 22, 2000).]
Just another example of the travesties of the justice system, Graham should be free. ------------------ I AM SPARTACUS
I must admit at the very beginning here I am still on the fence when it comes to capital punishment. I see both sides and each have their merits. Concerning the possibility of no capital punishment, I agree with the idea of life with no parole. And I mean NO parole. You should get one appeal. If its found that you are guilty there's no choice; life in jail. As to capital punishment, boy, this is so hard. It would have to be beyond a shadow of a doubt. And I mean NO doubt. I think DNA testing should be MANDATORY in death trials. Surf guy I truly understand how you feel and the evidence is overwhelming. But it’s all circumstantial. And I'm sorry, but as much as I hate to say this, I don't think you can look at his past. Although he has shown a history of violence you can't automatically assume because of that that he's guilty. God I sound like Johnnie C. But having said that, if we didn't have the death penelty, then this guy should be jail for life. He's had is appeals, he's had his day in court. Even so, it's still a hard issue to consider. ------------------
Well, the stuff about his past came out in his trial so that is what I meant by it didn't help matters any. A person like that has already attempted to kill but failed, i.e. he is a likely candidate. What really swayed me is a few things including the sworn affidavit of the bailiff saying he said what he said and the fact that he was at his girlfriend's...yet he didn't recall or reveal her name, address, or any witness. Of course, one will think the worst if you don't know your girlfriend's name! Instead of saying that, he should have said he was locked in a closed library by mistake! A witness, his past, self-incriminating statements, bragging...sure it's all circumstantial but as far as circumstantial goes...you can not do much better than that. I think the media has swayed public opinion as their influence is overwhelming and they seem to be on his side and focus on the "one witness" defense when that is not all there is to it. Well, we will see what the Austinite judges have to say as there is a delay. There is still a little flicker of hope for the Graham camp. I think he did do it; I don't think he would be on death row, however, if he hadn't have robbed and attempted to murder several people before(like 10 robberies, bragged about murders(none specifically)). That is not going to help in the punishment phase of any trial if it's admissable. Without that, I think it would have been Life. Bad past = bad present. This guy is a murderer. I just saw an interview with one of his victims and he said after picking up a guy after his car broke down on I-10 in Houston, he drove the guy past an exit and pulled out a shot gun and told him, "i've killed 3 or 4 people. i'm going to kill you. then, i'm going to go back and kill your wife and kids(back at the brokedown or out of gas car on I-10). He then shot the victim in the leg and the victim muscled the shotgun out of his hands and shot the windshield out and escaped with one leg shot(severed) and breaking his other leg on the fall from the moving car. Unreal. I think given an eyewitness now and this background. Guilty. Wow. And that was in the murder trial. Surf ------------------ [This message has been edited by Surfguy (edited June 22, 2000).]
In the words of a great commercial… True....true.... Once again, this probably would not even be in our consciousness if it weren't for the media and the fact that good ole' boy is runnin' for president huh? ------------------
well according to CNN the lawyers for Graham said they are not going to appeal the latest ruling. Its going to go through tonight. GRHS ------------------
The only problem with the death penalty is they take too long to kill the bastards. I think they should require execution within 1 year of conviction. That should cut down some of the cost. Texas is #1 in executions...what's taking everyone else so long to catch on? ------------------ Too-Rye-Aye!
As far as death sentences go, I am a huge supporter of George Carlin's idea. Put them on TV, in prime time (halftime of Monday Night Football)!!!! Injections are too boring and the bastids don't suffer as their victims family's do. We could load them into canons (like the guy in the circus) no helmets, and blast them into a wall about 10 feet away. We could line up about 5 to 10 canons and paint targets on the walls, people could place bets like, who hits the bullseye, who leaves the biggest stain on the wall and so forth. Just think of the ratings a show like this would get!!! [This message has been edited by BobFinn* (edited June 22, 2000).]
I support the death penalty only if a life is taken. What I find weird about this case is that he has had 30 something appeals and went all the way to the Supreme Court and nobody overturned it. Also, no person EVER given the death has ever been proven innocent afterwards in this country. There are so many checks and balances that lead up to someone finally being executed. If the death penalty is revoked one day, I wouldn't lose sleep. But, God forbid, if my daughter was ever killed by another man or woman in a savage and intentional way, I would want that person dead with heavy medieval torturing leading up to the execution. I don't think spending the rest of your life in jail would ever be good enough to me. Especially when they get 3 meals a day, exercise and visiting rights. What will my daughter ever get 6 feet under in a box? ------------------ I Want To Thank God For Making Me A Rocketfan
Bob, Are you asking for the Sideshow Luke Perry Death Penalty???? Smeg ------------------ Mango is the Smeg of Bizarro World
Graham thinks were all racists in Texas and especially Harris County. I'm from Harris County and I resent that. I get along fine with all races...screw color. Like Senator Bullworth says, "...everybody just got to keep ****ing everybody until there are no more races...". Bulworth...that boy crazy! WAAZZUUP!?!?!? What a ****ed up world! Basketball season can't come soon enuff. Surf ------------------
"...Graham should be free." Yea, and he can live next door to you. This guy has zero credibility in this case because of the serious crimes he committed prior to this case. He is a proven theif, rapist and murderer. He deserves whatever he gets in the end. ------------------ We need some meat in the post and I don't mean Brian Grant!
Call it Shoot the Duck. You ever do that in a skating rink...hehehahah? Place a big duck bullseye on the side of a cliff and launch proven murders at it from a cannon. If it hits, someone wins money. Kind like the homerun money giveaway thing-a-ma-jig the Ashos do. Or refilm that movie with Arnold Schwabernagle where they shoot him in a runaway car in the tube of a mult-chambered bong. Forget the name. Haha. Surf ------------------
It's pointless.... The death penalty is just that, another death. It solves nothing. ------------------
Pimp, Graham wasn't a murderer, that is what the pigs and courts twist to the media. Without substantial evidence Gary was sentenced to death. I never have and never will respect the justice system of the u.s. ------------------ I AM SPARTACUS
Ok, suppose Graham is guilty. (Or should I say "was"?) He put a hell of a lot of effort into pretending his innocence. Think about all of those interviews and lie detector tests he'd have to go through. The man would have to be pretty damn smart to maintain his innocence for such a long period of time (18 years was it?). Which leads me to think maybe he is actually innocent. Given an innocent man on death row who is a 1st time convict, I would be all for as many retrials as necessary to prove his innocence. But Graham on the other hand, let him fry. The man was proven to have raped a woman, and had shot several others, including one person in the neck and one in the leg (who would have been dead if not for his reflexes). That's not even counting the murders he acknowledged but were never prosecuted for. Is there really a difference between murder and attempted murder? If I try to kill someone but he survives, does that make me any more innocent, or less evil? You may say I'm making a biased statement against Graham, but he deserves to be looked at unfairly. Even if he was innocent of killing Lambert, he shouldn't have put himself in a situation to be a prime suspect in the killing. That's all I have to say for now. ------------------ I will demonstrate my clutchness this November.
Death penalty solves nothing? Tell that to the families of the 8 people Kenneth McDuff killed after his first death sentence was commuted. ------------------
